lync and synce confusion , please help

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

shift rod from main throttle arm to carb roller disconnected.

phill

why?

 

[durban]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

the trigger timing must be 3 -5 degrees ATDC at idle & rpm 750 -850 in water & 16 - 18 Degrees for WOT , & Idle mixture screws 2 1/2 turns out from a slightly seated position
with the throttle arm held against the idle stop screw & timing light connected check the timing & adjust the idle screw at top of trigger , screw clockwise to advance & anticlockwise to retard to achieve 3-5 degrees ATDC

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Phil, I want to thank you for this thread. Your frustration, logic, and especially the photos has helped me a great deal in at least understanding some of the principles of how this beast works. I have a 1993 65 hp Johnson (65WMLETD) that I purchased last fall. I haven`t had a good day on the water yet as I cannot get it to idle. It seems to work good at high speed but it is a manual operation to load and unload from the trailer. Perhaps you could share how many turns you have the carbs adjusted to. When I am attempting to adjust them, only the top carb responds. I can screw the adjustments on the bottom two carbs all the wy in and the motor keeps on running. (After rebuilding the carbs, I began at 1 1/2 turns (3 flats)).

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

SHELTERING
ive noticed that both sets of carbs ive got 9yep i have spares) are around the two full turns out on the mix screws.(4 flats)
also noted a few others on the net have found them to be between 2 and 2 1/2 turns,not 1 1/2 like a lot of books says.
maybe the build point is 1.5 turns to start with then go from that point.

DURBAN.
your the first person to say 3-5 degree's ATDC !!!! now ive been setting this at BTDC ???
maybe thats my problem.

ill have to check this again but im sure i read BTDC.....this could explain a lot if thats the case.

Does anyone have a real omc book on this with the REAL settings at idle speeds ?
because guess what !!!! they dont carry them in stock at BRP dealerships, have to be ordered from the states.


YESTERDAY WENT TO LOCAL BRP AGENT. should be re-named RIP
that was as about much use as a Fart in a Space suit.
i went in the hope of getting a rebuild carb kit,plus the two tiny little bits of metal in the carbs to rebuild this (old syle) fuel pump.
the best result i got was it will cost ?85 uk pound for a new one thats $131 us..now thats crazy, then got told i would be better of
with new engine for ?5,500 pound for a new 60hp e-tec thats around $8,500 !!!!!!!!!!
yeah right, I must look like im made of money.


BRP if your listening, wake up and tell your dealerships to be a bit more helpfull,or we just might all
go back to the DARK SIDE.
the place where the dealers have always been helpfull in my case and a few friends as well.


think i might be putting my trusty old suzuki 30hp on the back and enjoy the rest of the summer.
30hp running fine is far better than 60hp that wont even start !!!!!!!!!


phill.......

 

[daselbee]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Phil....I too am at a disadvantage with this one. ..... and get the idle timing set at about 4 ATDC. Then using all the intuitive brainpower you have,

Back at post #12...note I said ATDC.....you not reading? In almost EVERY case, the idle timing will be ATDC, the WOT will be BTDC. Basics.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

i cannot believe ive missed this ........
its so bloody obvious as well.

Imsure i read it said BTDC, ill go and check that again.


but come t o think of it im sure i tried that and it didnt start at all.

by setting it at 4 degree AFTER the cdi would then take it back to TDC due to it taking it up by 4 degree's ..is that right ?
or am i now thinking so far out the box im in the next field ?


phill

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

I realize you are getting it from all angles, so it may be confusing. Idle timing is generally 0-5deg ATDC. BUT YOU MUST BE AWARE THAT QUICK START WILL SKEW YOUR READINGS BY ADDING 10 deg. Be sure quick start is disengaged when checking.

 

[daselbee]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Schematic is correct re: Quickstart. But you ARE in left field now. By referring to 4 degree offset in your next to last sentence, in relation to IDLE timing....you are making a BIG mistake. You, I think, are referring to Joe Reeves 4 degree offset...and that is only done for the WOT timing setting. Set the idle timing with Quickstart OFF, for 4* ATDC as a starting point for the timer base at idle position of the linkage. Once you get it idling at or around 4* ATDC, and linkages correct, then you can worry about WOT timing, and the 4* offset that Reeves method specifies. I have an alternate method that sets it dead nuts, with no offset required. I have posted it before. I cannot remember right offhand how to disable QS.....ground the white/black from temp sender???...what is it Schematic? You will know.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

yeah quick start seems to mess around with the timing everything ha ha

now to disengage quickstart i have to take the wire from the temp sender (the black and white one) take it apart at the
join plug, and where it goes back to cdi ground the wire yeah, or do i just leave it not touching anything ?
its now got to the point im not sure what end of the boat im at let alone quickstart.....:faint:
hard to tell when it takes so long to start that the engine is so eratic.

ive done everything so many times so many ways i am now just a confused mess dribbling on the floor, i wish i took heavy duty
drugs then i could blame it on those:hippie: ha ha ,


it seems there is a chance it could even start up now

will try this tommorow for sure, ill be so glad if this works.
once everything is correct and it goes well,im gonna weld a plate over it so nobody can touch ha ha

phill

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

what is it Schematic? You will know.

easiest way to check "idle timing" without the intervention of quickstart, on any application, is to:


- disconnect the yellow wire from the starter solenoid
- turn key "on"
- jumper from solenoid "positive cable" to "stud where yellow wire was"
- observe timing


There are other methods but this allows instant base timing.

 

[daselbee]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Errr.....not....no........if you jump from B+ at solenoid to "stud where yellow was" you will engage the starter solenoid, engine will start, and unless you know to remove jumper, the solenoid will never disengage...Not good.....To disable QS, disconnect the yellow/red wire that runs from the solenoid small stud up to the pack. Disconnect the white/black wire from the temp sender at it's connector, and GROUND the pack side. QS should be disabled. This does two things: 1. Removes the +12 volt signal that hits the pack every time you go to start your motor (key in START position) , which tells the pack to go into QS mode. and 2. Grounds the sensor lead on the pack side which tells the pack that the motor is up to temperature, even if it is not. QS will not engage.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

ok whos right and whos wrong

me im just confused


phill

 

[daselbee]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Going drinking.....have a good one guys.

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

I knew to ground the black/white wire on the pack side,but did'nt know about yellow and red wire at solenoid.

its definitely all starting to sound good to me (no pun intended).:joyous:
this all makes a lot of sense as it lets me get the timing right without even starting the beast, once i know timing is correct
then if still a problem it can only be the dreaded carbs.:facepalm:

ive got the spare set infront of me on the desk, they are so clean it seems a shame to put them on an engine.
i might just keep them indoors as a reminder not to touch anything else before i know what i am realy doing.!!!!!!!:blue:


you guys on here are great,youve been very patient with me and i know im a pain the arse, but this is just brilliant news today.
without being out the back doing it i can already feel its gonna work, and its cheered me up a lot already.

Realy cant believe ive been so stupid as not put it ATDC !!!!!!

there is even a 4 degree ATDC on the flywheel ....


phill...

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Errr.....not....no........if you jump from B+ at solenoid to "stud where yellow was" you will engage the starter solenoid, engine will start, and unless you know to remove jumper, the solenoid will never disengage...Not good.....To disable QS, disconnect the yellow/red wire that runs from the solenoid small stud up to the pack. Disconnect the white/black wire from the temp sender at it's connector, and GROUND the pack side. QS should be disabled. This does two things: 1. Removes the +12 volt signal that hits the pack every time you go to start your motor (key in START position) , which tells the pack to go into QS mode. and 2. Grounds the sensor lead on the pack side which tells the pack that the motor is up to temperature, even if it is not. QS will not engage.

As I said.....there are more than one way. My way is easier, No need to even start. It also requires only one wire to be disconnected

Quickstart will not engage unless started with the key, as the key switch powers up QS. Thats why I disconnect yellow at solenoid and temporarily jump from battery cable.

Thats just me....either will work.

 

[durban]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

if you gonna use the quick start the motor needs to warm up thoroughly if its not warmed up to operating temp the quick start program will then advance the timing & cause the timing to be incorrectly adjusted , the idle mixture screw should be adjusted a little at a time until you get to 2 1/2 turns but no more than 2 3/4 turns providing the butterfly's are all synchronized you should be all sweet

 

[phillnjack2]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

well i cant do it to day
been summoned to help daughter at her house with a few things.
but tomorrow ill be getting this thing done or swapping the engine over and putting on the stand ready to put into a
mechanic to sort the bugger out.

seems strange how it would run so good at high revs, yet so crap at bottom end.
if the lync and sync were out i suppose this could of caused it.
still only one way to find out and thats give it another try.

this engine has been a bit of a mystery in a few ways to me, it definitely was not getting max revs as would not go over 5700
even with just a 15 pitch prop.

just need to get out on that water and test it with the different cdi powerpack thing


phill

 

[Sheltering]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Hi Phil,
I have learned a great deal about my 65 hp Johnson (not to mention the entertainment I enjoyed) just by following you on this forum.
I spoke with a good mechanic a few days ago who said that Johnson had issued a field bulletin way back when stating that the manual was incorrect concerning the mixture adjustment screw and that for our outboards (with the fuel solenoid primer), it should be 2 3/4 turns. This same mechanic stressed the importance of having tight seals within the carbs. When I had cleaned my carbs, I had not replaced the bowl gaskets nor the small round gaskets in the center of the bowls. Yesterday I removed all three carbs again and renewed these gaskets. I also inspected all the fuel lines and replaced some of the clamps that were loose. I was quite amazed how easily the motor started and how smooth it idled afterwards. This however was in the driveway on the water muffs. I am heading out this morning to give it the ultimate test and will let you know.
After reading your posts, I also checked the spacing on my timing lever. The idle stop was very close but not quite touching and the spacing at the top was even greater that the 1/2 inch. (I had not changed any of these settings).
Another problem that I encountered earlier was in the fuel primer solenoid. I discovered a small crack in the plastic cover running from one of the screw holes to the plunger. When I replaced this cover, I was then able to start motor although i was still having a problem with the idle.

Don in New Brunswick Canada

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

Make sure all adjustments for sync/link are done in a barrel or backed into water as they cannot be done correctly on a hose. The correct spec's are below along with scan from manual:
Spark plugs....QL787YC gapped @.030
idle rpm in gear(under load): 800 rpm +/-50
Initial low speed setting on carbs:... 2 3/4 turns off light seat
Idle timing: 4-7? ATDC
max spark advance :17? BTDC

 

[schematic]

Re: lync and synce confusion , please help

seems strange how it would run so good at high revs, yet so crap at bottom end.
if the lync and sync were out i suppose this could of caused it.
phill

be sure pickup timing is correct if its poor off of idle

this engine has been a bit of a mystery in a few ways to me, it definitely was not getting max revs as would not go over 5700
even with just a 15 pitch prop.

15p may not be low enough for your setup

just need to get out on that water and test it with the different cdi powerpack thing

Not likely the problem if it runs smooth and consistent at 5700 rpm. Get your timing straightened out first