Keel Damage Repair Question

[vt700guy]

Hi, New boat owner here starting off with an older boat. The boat has a complete fiberglass hull and the transom appears to be in good shape, but there is some scuffing and gouges on the keel (from beaching at the local lake through the years). The scuffs on the side look like nothing more than chipped gel coat, but down the middle it looks like it might be a little deeper. Any thoughts on how I should repair this? I'm leaning towards Marine Tex on the gouges along the sides, would that work for the middle parts as well or...?

FWIW, I'm not worried about color matching, I will paint it to match as well as possible and down the road after I have confirmed everything else is solid do a complete repaint.

Also, the area is all solid, with no soft spots that I can find.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[pauloman]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

use a kevlar reinforced epoxy putty such was wet dry 700. it can even be applied underwater

Paul Oman - MS. MBA
A.K.A. “Professor E. Poxy”
Internet Epoxy Confederation (IEC) EPOXY HOMEPAGE
epoxies since 1994
Member: NACE (National Assoc. of Corrosion Engineers) -- SSPC (Soc. of Protective Coatings)

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

I've been reading this thread....http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ld-you-do-what-will-cost-pictures-504325.html

It looks like it was recommended that he use CSM, resin and 1708 biax. Can anyone explain what's involved in this procedure? Would it be overkill in my situation? In the case that I use this method I've been able to find a place to buy the CSM, and resin but not the 1708.

What about this wet dry 700 stuff?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

I don't think there's much actual fiberglass weave shown in your keel damage pix:

Unlike the thread you referenced, which has damage that penetrates THRU the fiberglass weave:

To use CSM, 1708 & poly resin, you'd have to grind back the gelcoat 6" or more around the area to be repaired, then alternate layers of CSM & 1708 w/ resin until it is almost flush w/ the surrounding surface. Then fill & feather (using poly resin & fillers) the area until it blended well w/ the surrounding area. Then repaint/re-apply gelcoat to the repair & surrounding areas to blend the color & coverage.......

If there is no loose fiberglass strands or large areas of exposed fiberglass weave, I'd probably make a thick poly resin filler (using 1/4" chopped fibers and cabosil to make a very thick, more so then peanut butter, consistency paste filler (hence we call it hairy PB filler)) over fill the areas that are damaged, and sand it to match the contours of the hull. Once it's close, fill w/ a filler made w/ cabosil but w/out the chopped fibers, about mayo consistency. Any of the damage that is more of a nick or a scrape can be filled w/ this mayo thickness filler too. For a final filler you can use microballons to make a fairly runny filler that is easy to sand & makes a great filler to feather repairs in.

Never used nor heard of that 700 filler, but that certainly doesn't mean it isn't a good choice. Quite a few have used MarineTex and are satisfied w/ the results, but that also doesn't make it a better choice. Read up on the 700 filler, and if you use it please post up your results & thoughts about it's workability & etc.........



If you plan to continue beaching, I'd HIGHLY recommend a keel guard (iboats sells them, as do others. If you use one of those, you can expect it to 'hide' some of the major repair area if you don't remove the gelcoat....

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

First...Thank you very much for you help. I will make sure I take good pics and report back on how the work goes.

On the PB, is there a thread somewhere that I am missing with a write up on how to mix this stuff up?

I guess my main question on it is do I use resin plus the cabosil and chopped fibers or ONLY the cabosil and chopped fibers? And can the fibers be from any fiberglass cloth, or would I want to use a specific type?

Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I get it right so I don't mess anything up.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Here's one thread where it's discussed:
Anyone have a PB (peanut butter)recipie

At the bottom of that thread there's 4 more listed:
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The basic idea is start w/ some poly resin, and add 1 (or more) of a variety fillers to get the consistency & properties you need or want.

Look thru the threads listed here:
How To's and Other Great Information

Lots of good info in there ^^^ too..........

No, you never use CSM or 1708 (whole or cut up) w/out resin. If you use epoxy, make sure to use epoxy compatible cloths. In some applications, mat or cloth is not needed w/ epoxy. Not all cloths are compatible. Many are, and your supplier should be able to tell you YES or NO. If they can't, find another supplier.

Yes you can cut up scrap CSM (Chopped Strand Mat) or buy chopped strand in 1/16"-1/4" +/-. Using chopped fibers reinforces the mixture & makes it more structurally sound (IE: Stronger), in some applications that added strength isn't necessary, so you mix only cabosil &/or microballons. You may find cabosil or fumed silica. As before, this mix depending on what you're adding & what it's to be used for, can be very thick w/ fibers added, or any consistancy from peanut butter to thinner then mayo.


Great care should be taken while handling these fillers & the resins.

Look for Friscoboater's threads in Don's How to list. His videos really make it all come together & make sense of what you're reading & seeing in pix. He also has a youtube channel & a boat blog (these should be linked in his signature lines)

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Awesome, thanks for linking those threads and video, it's making sense now! I'll do some more reading tonight to continue "clearing" it up.

FWIW, the boat I'm working on is a 15' 1972 Sooner Craft with a 1983 model 70HP Evinrude. I will post up some more pics tomorrow because I know everyone loves pics

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Here's some more pics just to show you what I'm working with.

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Here's a couple more.

My plan is to install 4 pedestal seats along with new carpet and up front put a casting deck.

On the trailer I will give it some new wheels and tires, bearings, electrical, and paint.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Based on the pix, I think you need to also spend a great deal of time giving it a VERY thorough inspection.

The damage isn't seem that bad, but the boat does look like it's been exposed to the elements, possibly for quite some time. That's extremely hard on fiberglass boats, which unfortunately are full of plywood that can be compromised by water intrusion.

The brown water marks around the interior of the boat, aren't I'm afraid, good signs:

I'd give the entire deck (floor) a close look, using a mallet to tap while listening for changes in the sound of the mallet thuds & a small bladed screwdriver or awl, applying firm, deliberate pressure on it's entire surface.

The transom can be inspected via core samples taken in random locations across it's height & width, particularly along the bottom just above the deck. Use a 1/4" or 3/8" bit marked w/ tape for a depth gauge at about 1.25":

The shavings should be dry & light colored, damp/dark shavings are a sign water has made it's way into the transom.

There's no access to any of the below deck structure, so depending on what else you find during the inspection, you'll have to make an educated guess as to whether you NEED to make access or not.....

It is not a small task if the inspection indicates water intrusion, but reading thru some threads & asking lots of questions, you can repair anything that needs done.

Post up a pix of the backside of the transom:

Showing the thru hull drain plug, like the photo above does.

The 1st pix of your boat I posted shows 2 lower motor mount thru bolts. They do not appear to be weeping, rusted or starting to compress the fiberglass beneath the washers. That's all a good sign. Removing those bolts & probing the transom wood inside the thru holes (a major source of many transom problems) can be extremely telling as well.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

I should mention that the water staining around the interior of the boat, indicates that it's sat for some time collecting & filling w/ water. Or at least makes it appear that way. That's typically a bad sign on fiberglass boats....

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Here's a couple pics of the transom from the back.

It was sitting outside for sale for a couple months and had gathered some water during that time, but previous to that had been stored inside.

I've done the mallet check, but as you can see have not drilled any core samples. I'll pull one of those bolts and take a look as soon as I get a chance.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

If it doesnt look like the speedo tube is bedded in sealant, remove that too & probe the screw holes.

Looks like there's no staining on the transom, so that is a good start....

After you probe the motor mount & speedo holes, I'd recommend 3M 4200 or 5200 to seal the holes when you reinstall the bolts & screws.

HomeDepot & Lowes often carry it. Iboats does, as do many online vendors. NOTE: 5200 is listed as PERMANENT, and pretty much is..

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Ok, sorry it has been a while since i last posted. I'm looking to get some supplies ordered. I'm in Oklahoma, any tips on a good supplier?
FWIW I'm also looking to glass in some seat pedestals (friscoboater style) and battery box mounts so any tips on which mat/cloth to use there would be helpful too.

Had the wife pick up some 3M resin from lowes but after doing some reading I'm not so sure I want to use it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

How much are you going to need? I'm an okie too and I get most of my stuff from USComposites. Shipping is pricey but their prices are about the best you'll find. You'll need 1.5 oz CSM and 1708 for most of your Glass work. If you give us specific overview of everything you're doing we can give you a good estimate of the quantities you'll need.

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

How much are you going to need? I'm an okie too and I get most of my stuff from USComposites. Shipping is pricey but their prices are about the best you'll find. You'll need 1.5 oz CSM and 1708 for most of your Glass work. If you give us specific overview of everything you're doing we can give you a good estimate of the quantities you'll need.

I'm looking to build 4 mounts for seat bases similar to these, and a couple to mount my battery boxes to of a similar size. Plus the work on the keel as discussed above. Thanks for your response!

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

I'm looking to build 4 mounts for seat bases similar to these, and a couple to mount my battery boxes to of a similar size. Plus the work on the keel as discussed above. Thanks for your response!

Until you have inspected the transom floors and most important what's under the floors, meaning your stringers, you can't really decide how much material to order. If your floor has any soft spots, there's a good chance you will have some water in the stringers too. That turns this job into a much bigger one. When you test drill your transom, you do understand that this is done from the inside, and not the outside right? I would be drilling as low as you can get access to, that is where water will start rotting out your wood. Same goes for stringers under the floor. Drill low if you can gain access to them. You might be lucky and not have any rot if the boat was stored out of the weather and bow up, with the drain plug out.
You never mentioned what year the boat was, but it looks to be of the age that previous owners may have caused some of this stuff to occur. It doesn't take long to get a boats structure saturated with water, then the bad stuff starts happening. Good luck in your survey of the boat situation.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

GF, Brings up some Great Points. Besides the Keel, What all have you done to this Boat? Pics of the entire boat would be nice.

 

[vt700guy]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Floor is good with no soft spots, and transom is good as well.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel Damage Repair Question

Soooo, I assume you've drilled core samples in the transom to confirm it's good to go and or done a bounce test on the motor to ensure there is no flex in the transom?? If the deck is not going to be removed and you are only going to be placing seat pads on the existing deck as in the pic you posted then you can still use the T-nuts as I described. I posted that pic for those pads a few years back. You use epoxy to stick em to the deck and then glass tape to tab em in. doesn't take much material or time to do the job.