Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

[ADK_Boater]

Hey Everybody,

I have a 1972 Johnson 85hp that I've been trying to start for while.
I believe that I've damaged my starter or starter solenoid from excessive cranking and inadequate cool down times in between.

Here's the symptoms:
The starter engages intermittently when I crank it over. If I hold the key for 5-10 seconds, then the starter pinion will engage intermittently Jumping up and down sometimes engaging for the majority of the cranking, sometimes it is in and out, and slow.

Does anybody know if that is symptomatic of a ruined starter, if so would it be the brushes? Could it be the solenoid since it is intermittent like that?

I have a new fully charged battery that I checked with a multimeter. The starter was fine until I excessively cranked it over trying to get it to stat for the first time. I've put so much time into this motor that I'd hate to quit now.

I looked through the archives but didn't find exactly what I'm looking for, so I was hoping someone might have some insight.

Thanks!

 

[Daviet]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Make sure that all cable connections on the battery and engine are really clean and tight. You could do a voltage drop test on the cables to make sure the cables are good. Check the voltage on the starter side of the solenoid with a volt meter when you try and start it, if it is the same as the battery side, you have a defective starter.

 

[cdn-pk]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Check the pinion as well, they should be greased at least once a season (most people don't do this). But before i buy another i'd take it apart and inspect the brushes and the bearings. But from the symptoms my money would be on a bad connection or a flaky starter solenoid

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

The connections at the battery are clean as a whistle. I'll have to check the rest tomorrow when it is light out.

My only problem with it being a connection problem is that the starter cranked over for weeks with no problem. Then when I was cranking it over multiple times with not enough time in between (the manual says wait 2 minutes between 15 second cranks...15 seconds being the max) it started doing what I described above.

I wish I had had more patience in between cranks. Man this motor has beena PITA! lol.
If anybody has info about these symptoms it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Again!

 

[boobie]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

You may have fried the armature in the starter from all the cranking.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I really hope not.
But, if so what specific damage would have been done to the armature ?

 

[Daviet]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Melted the solider out of the armature, if so, time to buy a new one.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I was afraid you were going to say that

I'll check all connections tomorrow, and try cranking it over again. I'll do a solenoid test tomorrow, and post all results here

Thanks again!

 

[BonairII]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Mine starter did the same thing today....the positive terminal wasn't tight. Def check your connections.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I made sure they were quite tight...good suggestion though.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Update: I cleaned all terminals, and hardware on the starter, and solenoid. Then I reconnected them and gave it a try. There was no change in the erratic/intermittent/weak cranking of the starter.

Next I'm going to test the solenoid with a multimeter. I'll post the results later.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I fixed the starter!
When I disassembled the starter, I found that the brushes, and armature were covered in a caked on, somewhat-waxy, grease.. with the consistency of clay.
There were pieces of this material inside the bottom of the starter, with a few irregular shapes like they were a wiring jacket mixed in.
I gently cleaned the vast majority of it out with a pick set, and shop towels.

It might have been my imagination, but it sounded a little like it was spinning faster too...after I reassembled it.

It was dark at that point so I will try to start it (once again) tomorrow.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Don't overlook the solenoid. After years of use, the contacts inside can get burned and won't transfer enough current to turn the starter normally. The test the starter, bypass the solenoid and jump the starter with a set of jumper cables. If it turns normally, replace the solenoid.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

After reassembly, the starter turned normally...it even sounded a little faster.
I had considered the solenoid, and did try to test it with my multimeter. As far as I can tell it is functioning properly.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I cranked it over today, and the starter reverted to its intermittent/erratic behavior.
Thinking about having it rebuilt.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I jumped the starter with 4 gauge jumper cables. It appeared to spin freely and smoothly. Tested it multiple times.
This led me to believe I had a bad solenoid.

I tested the solenoid with a multimeter. It seemed to have over 12V on it every time, but I replaced it anyway after the jumper test.
After doing so the starter behaved erratically again.

Now I'm really confused. I'm going to test the resistance on the wire between the two but I think it would be a longshot that a copper wire with solid and undamaged terminals would just "go bad".

I can have the starter rebuilt. I have no idea what else it could be at this point.
Anybody have any ideas?

I'm stumped!

 

[teglovinvtec]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

everything you have done ive tried ive been down this road. my issue was a bad wire coming from the neg battery term. to the starter housing giving me a weak ground. like you said when you hook it up to jumper cables it worked great. i ran new possitive and neg cables from the battery to the starter and solinoid havent had a problem since. i will tell you even when i jumped the solinoid before i did the cables i had the same poor starter issue. then i hooked the jumpers straight up to the starter from battery and bam!!! worked like a champ. it rattled my brain for 2 days its been a month since the fix and i use my boat 3-4 times a week everything is good.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Thanks for the reply

I believe the ground for my starter is the housing itself being bolted to the powerhead. There is only a red/positive cable connected to the starter. But I will test and replace the wire between the solenoid and starter...probably even if it is not bad just to be safe and see what the results are.

I cleaned the negative battery terminal and fitting where it connects to the powerhead so I don't believe negative grounding is an issue with anything. But, that information is helpful.
Thank you.

 

[ADK_Boater]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

Update: Having starter rebuilt at a local rebuild specialist. It's a Prestolite, and probably the original. Should be ready for install by midweek.

Also: Tested Positive and negative battery leads, and lead between starter, and solenoid. All passed with flying colors.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Intermittant Starter, Bad Brushes? or Solenoid?

I've been following along here and wondering what the status of your fix is. Especially in light of my recent starter issues. (I'm NOT hijacking here!) My solenoid just clicks but if I run jumpers directly to the starter it spins properly and I have proper VOLTAGE at the relay....but not enough amperage. My problem appears to be the solenoid not contacting firmly/cleanly/properly. Just wondering if you'd thought about replacing the much less expensive solenoid.

Halfmoa