Ignition questions

zx9rstv

Seaman
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
54
Hi folks,

I recently bought a 1990 Sea Ray 280 sundancer with twin merc 5.7 V8's and alpha 1 gen 1 outdrives. The Port motor was running but the starboard was seized. So i ended up having both motor replaced with 2 re manufactured engines. The marine place used my old ignition stuff which I was fine with, since I was trying to keep my costs down as much as possible. I knew my port ignition stuff worked since the motor was running when i purchased the boat.

When I picked up the boat from the mechanics, He started both engines and ran them up to temp and everything was fine. I drove home (about 15 miles) with the boat and in my excitement I wanted to show my wife the new motors running. I hooked the muffs and proceeded to start the starboard motor. It cranked and cranked but wouldn't fire. I then switched the muffed to my port engine and it fired right away. I let the boat sit over night (thinking I flooded the starboard engine). Went out the next morning to start the starboard motor and same deal. cranked but wouldn't start. Called the mechanic and explained the situation. He said to bring the boat back and he would troubleshoot it. Took the boat that afternoon. He found that it the starboard motor wasn't getting any spark. So he advised to use a new HEI dizzy. It was billet with a red cap and very good looking. I asked if that replaced the whole system he said yes. It has a built in coil and i'd see better results with this setup. I had him replace the port ignition with the same HEI dizzy he put on the starboard. Just because I like 2 things to be the same. (sorry if i'm long winded i'm getting to the point now) I have not splashed the boat yet. I've been waiting to redo the outdrives, but i do go out about every week to start the engines on the muffs and let them warm up to stay lubed. Here's my problem. They start extremely hard. Take lots of cranking and lots of pumping the throttle to get them to start. Today I had to retard the turn on the dizzy to get it to try to fire then once it was firing I had to advance a little to get it to idle. From what I've read this dizzy setup I was given is an automotive dizzy and doesn't work well with the marine application. I've had a notion to just put my old ignition system on the port motor and buy a new used system for the starboard. But I would need a dizzy, coil, wires, and ignition module V822A which seems to be expensive even in the used Field. Is this the best route to take, or is there a better alternative for the marine ignition?
 

Lyle29464

Lieutenant
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
1,261
Re: Ignition questions

It should start fine with any distributor. An auto type would not perform in the water.
main problem is safety. You cant use an auto distributor on a boat. Need to find out what you really have out there. If it's automotive I would get my old parts back and my money and find a new shop that works on boats only.

If they sold you automotive parts what the hell are the engines put together with? You might have a bomb just waiting to go off.
 

zx9rstv

Seaman
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
54
Re: Ignition questions

The dizzy's look just like these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chev...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item564120447f

All I know Is the port motor with the thunderbolt ignition started right up with 2 pumps of the throttle. Now they start hard after sitting awhile. If i go make the decision to go back to the original ignition. Is there a better one out there?

As for the mechanic It was Daddy O's Marine in Pompano beach.( I live in Fort Lauderdale) I visited them before I had them do the work and was very impressed with their expertise and prices.
 

zx9rstv

Seaman
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
54
Re: Ignition questions

I'm mechanically inclined but don;t have any clue of how these motors are set up with what kind of choke. Mechanical, electrical, vacuum? is there a manual floating around somewhere?
 

zx9rstv

Seaman
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
54
Re: Ignition questions

Another question, I've searched all over the net and can't find the difference in part numbers for the ICM module. I had a thunderbolt 4 ICM with a part number of
9E16A V8-22A. I see other modules with different part number saying they are for 5.7 applications. IE: 4H25A Do I need to find the specific 9E16A V8 22A for my other motor?
Or will one of these others work. I haven't decided to switch out the ignition just yet. Just trying to cover as much angles as possible. I'll be checking the choke system on the carbs tomorrow.
 

NHGuy

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: Ignition questions

You already tried 2 sets of ignition, might be smart to look elsewhere.
I just ran mine to verify choke this last weekend. B4 you take off the ignition again try the choke.
Here's how I do it. If you already know this I apologize but some younger folks who learned on fuel injection motors might not have this clear in their minds.

Run the blower as always, and run water to the drive. Have a fire extinguisher which you should not need, nearby.
Basically, remove the carb cover and flame arrestor so you can see the top of the carb. Then check the rectangular flapper in the top of the carb, that's the choke plate. When the motor is cold that will be closed. It's closed by a temperature actuated spring. When the spring on the end of the link warms up it takes off the choke. So you can touch it and it should be able to be opened with light finger pressure. When the motor isn't warm the choke will reclose when you let it go.
When you start the motor cold it chokes off some of the air until there is heat when it opens. If it's not closing you can enrich the fuel by pumping the gas during cold starts, if it's staying closed too long and making the engine run rough you can manually open it to smooth the motor out. Sometimes you can just free up the links by moving them as I described. If things are sticky you can spray some carb cleaner around there while the engine is running at high idle. Maybe 1000 rpm or so. Spray in quick bursts, the carb cleaner will probably speed up the motor momentarily, pause after each burst to allow the engine to return to normal speed.

I assume you know enough to pump the throttle 2 or 3 times to maybe half throttle before you hit the starter. This is necessary on carburetors but not on fuel injection engines. It gives a burst of fuel to help the start, and on some carburetors it allows the choke to close.
 

NHGuy

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: Ignition questions

Don't spray carb cleaner in a stopped engine, and if it stalls while spraying wait a couple of minutes, like 2 or 3 minutes before cranking to restart. Allows evaporation so the liquid is less likely to cause issues.
 

NHGuy

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: Ignition questions

I reread your posts, sorry to go into too much detail, the chokes should be mechanical.
To get the manual search in 4shared.com, it's in there.
 

zx9rstv

Seaman
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
54
Re: Ignition questions

Took the boat back to the mechanic today. They are going to check things out. The motor work and installation is under warranty. So we'll see.
 

dubs283

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
5,210
Re: Ignition questions

i don't know why so many people ditch the t-bolt ignition system for a cheaper, chinese made electronic ignition set-up

t-bolt is specifically designed for mercruiser marine engines, period

there is a 95% chance the only thing wrong with the engine with no spark was the ignition sensor in the distributor - $100 and your boating

ask your mechanic about it, if they don't understand, that should tell you a lot about their "expertise"
 
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