If you have high charge voltage, please read

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I replaced the rectifier/regulator four years ago. I purchased the unit via i-boats parts. I was told by my boat service manager that it isn't charging. My rectifier/regulator has 5 wires: 2 yellow, 2 red (one is thicker that the other) and one gray. The two yellow are for the AC in from the stator, the thick red goes to the terminal of the starter relay where the battery source connects, and the gray is for the tach. The smaller red is ignored and typed off. How do I connect the four lead unit? The two yellow wires are for the AC, the Red to Red so what do I connect the gray wire to?

If I read the previous threads, it looks like the gray wire is joined to one or the other yellow wires. What do I do?

I used a DVOM & diode tester to test the unit. Forward yellow(1) to thick red; 1.54. Reverse yellow(1) to thick red; .46 Then forward yellow(2) to thick red; nothing. Reverse yellow(2) to red; .46 I used the same procedure to test the yellows to the other red as well as the gray and had the same readings. It appears that one of the four diodes is shot as the current won't flow in the forward direction.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

What year and hp motor?

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Sorry about that....

Its a 1995/1996 Force 70. The replacement part is a CDI 194-5279 with 5 leads.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Harkawy,

I am on currently on vacation and don't have access to my books. Your engine is not one of the ones I have memorized. (G) I will keep your post and respond next week when I return home.

Regards,

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

John,

Enjoy your vacation! I have no plans on using the boat for the next few weeks.

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Suggestions and recommendations for my charging system and tach.

I am open to all suggestions and thoughts.

I have owned my 1995/6 Force 70 for about four years. The year after I purchased it, I realized that the battery was not being charged while the engine was running. At 3500 rpm, the volt gage only showed ~ 12 v. Via I-boats, I purchased a replacement rectifier/regulator (R/R). This unit has 5 wires; 2 yellow (none with a second color,), 2 red wires (one thicker than the other) and a gray wire. According to the R/R?s manufacturer, the two yellow wires go to the stator, the thicker red wire, used to charge the battery, goes to the post at the starter relay where the battery is connected. The thinner red wire which is directly connected to the thicker red is not used and the gray wire feeds the source/pulse for the tachometer. Their tech support says that the wiring diagram is proprietary so they cannot provide me with any info regarding how the gray wire is connected.

After replacing the R/R, the volt meter never went above 13 volts and then only above 3500 rpm.
I recently had the motor serviced (it stalled and would not restart) and I was told by the service manager that it was not charging. After getting the engine running, I brought the boat home and tested the R/R and found that one diodes attached to one of the yellow wires to the red output was blown. The tach still functions.

To replace the R/R again is expensive so I purchased the unit suggested here on this thread. It arrived here this past Friday. It has 4 wires; 2 yellow (1 with a blue strip,) 1 red and the black wire which isn?t attached to the unit but to the plug only. It is obvious that the 2 yellow wires attach to the stator and the red wire is for charging and the case is ground.

Now here is my dilemma.

If I replace the old R/R with the new one, do I attach the tach?s gray wire to the yellow with the blue strip? There are resistances between the original R/R?s gray and the two yellow wires indicating that the gray wire comes from additional circuitry within the R/R and not directly from either yellow wire. Since the original R/R had a separate wire for the tach, can I blow the tach if it is attached to the yellow/blue wire? If that is a possibility, do I install the new R/R and not connect the tach or can I use both R/R?s; the defective one for the tach and the new one for charging the battery?

I am sorry if this is long and convoluted, but I have a ?puzzlement? so any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Harvey

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Harvey,

I have returned and had a look at my manuals. As far as I can see, your engine, if it had a type II ignition system, used a four wire regulator. The wires were two yellow, one red and one gray. This type of unit, as with the Universal regulator are case grounded. The yellow wires go to the stator, the red goes to the battery terminal of the solinoid and the gray wire, while wired into the harness, is not used.

How did you come to get a five wire regulator as a replacement?

In any case, I believe the Universal Regulator will work fine in your installation. The two yellow wires will go to your stator and the red wire will go to your battery thru the solinoid connection. Make sure where ever you place it you give it a good ground. The connector comes with a lug that can be attached to the regulator attach bolt and the other end can go to ground.

If you email me at johnandnanc182@yahoo.com, I will send you a picture of mine.

Regards,

John

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Just had a thought. If your grey wire does go to your tach, just piggy back it to one of the yellow wires from the stator. Piggy back connections for spade lugs can be bought at Advance Auto.

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

John, Thank you for your replys. I do hope you had a wonderful time on your vacation.

My original R/R was 5 wire. 2 Yellow, 2 red and 1 gray. One red was for charging, the gray is for the tach. The one that I purchased originally was also 5 wire. That is the one that I now need to replace.
Please read my post above about "Suggestions and Recommendations" and let me know what you think.

Thanx.

Harvey

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

The tach works off of the AC pulse from the stator. The wire from your tach should run to one of the AC wires on the regulator. The grey wire in the original regulator may have run through a noise filter and that is why you get some continuity. The Universal does not have this so you have to connect it to one of the yellow or yellow stripe wires coming from your stator. If you have spade connections, you can get a piggy back from Advance Auto. Otherwise, just jumper the two.

Regards,

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Once again, Thank You, John.

That is what I will do tomorrow morning. I already installed a 4-post takeoff block that I will be using for the final connections. I have also prepaired the wires for the final connections with spade connectors to connect to the takeoff block.

I'll let you know how everything goes, tomorrow.

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

OK! Final report.

I removed the old R/R and installed the new one using the existing mounting holes, though I needed shorter 1/4-24 bolts. The R/R is located on the starboard side of the motor on a mounting plate which also holds the components that feed the spark plugs. Because the wires go behind the plate and are held together with bullet connectors, I decided that to avoid the need of removing the three 9/16" bushing nuts as well as all the wire ties just to replace a defective R/R, I added a 4 connector standoff block using existing unused taped holes. I added extension wires to the stator, the tach as well as the charging line using bullet connectors. I brought them forward through the existing hole and connected them to the takeoff block using spade connectors. I then installed the replacement R/R and connected the wires to their corresponding positions on the takeoff block, joining the gray tach wire to the yellow/blue strip wire.

I tested each battery and they were both 12.5volts. I joined the fuel quick disconnect, pumped the bulb until it was firm, set the battery switch to 1 and turned the engine over a few times. I pumped the throttle twice, turned it over again and pressed in the chock. She started immediately and idled smoothly. The tach showed just under 1000 rpm. I checked the voltage at the terminal of the takeoff block and ground; at idle 12.8 volts. I then increased the throttle to ~1500 rpm. The voltage was 13.2 volts.

So, now I would like to thank everyone who provided me the support that I needed to get the job done.

Harvey

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Good job! Don't forget to help others that may be in need.

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Good job! Don't forget to help others that may be in need.

John

Absolutely! I do what I can, where I can.

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

It is said that "Never say never!" Well, I say "Never say final report."

I took the boat to the lake with a fishing buddy. It started first time (like it always did.) Checked out the Voltage gauge at idle; ~12.6 volts. Left the dock at ~ 1500 rpm... ~13.5volts. When I was in the main channel, 4500 rpm... ~14.5 volts. The tach functioned just as expected as well.

The original Rectifier/Regulator that I installed 3 to 4 years ago never went above 13 volts. Bummer!!!

Now, I'm not only a happy camper..... I'm a happy boater too! I feel so electrified.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Can some one take a picture of the actual install and how it looks, what wires go where and how you attached them. I am going to do this mod but pictures are easier for me to understand. Thanks for the time.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I don't know how to add pictures. If you email me at johnandnanc182@yahoo.com I willl send you one.

John

 

[harkawy]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Pictures....

Before viewing the pictures, I thought I'd let you know what I did. Because the two yellow wires from the stator were too short to pass through the mounting bracket, I used 14 gauge wire (lamp cord) as an extension with insulated bullet connectors. The red wire from the battery side of the starter solenoid was also too short to pass through so I used red 14 gauge wire and a bullet connector as well. The tach wire was just long enough. The 4 position barrier strip http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103982 fit perfectly with existing threaded holes after I opened the mounting holes for the 10-24 screws. I used spade terminals for connecting to the barrier strip.

 

[jkust]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

I Additionally, I don't want to be in the middle of the Chesapeake and hear click, click when I turn the key.


Yes, but you can still pull start the Force 85 in a pinch though I have never actually tried mine.

 

[john from md]

Re: If you have high charge voltage, please read

Trust me, I have tried on several occasions with a fine tuned engine, and I can't get it to spin fast enough. Maybe an under sixty type might be able to start an 85 with a rope, but I can't.

John