higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

[new_boater]

i am looking at getting a older pontoon and doing a complete rebuild.
i currently have a older 115hp merc. and i am looking at beefing up transom and whatever else i would need to support this motor assuming that i can not find one rated for this size motor.
i am looking at a 22-24 pontoon and i would like input into how i can do this.
is it possible and what kind of bracing and support would i need to do

any input is appreciated

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I would not purchase a boat that was rated for less than the 115hp you already have. It should be easier to find the right boat then to beef up one thats not rated for that hp. Also, it is against the law to overpower any vessel that operates on public waters...

 

[new_boater]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

thanks
i know that it is against the law to overpower a boat but my thought was if i were to "build" a homemade pontoon then i would be able to set it up for what ever size motor i wanted. right?

following that logic it would seem that i could also change/modify a rebuilt pontoon to except a bigger motor.

is there no way to get a pontoon boat changed to handle the bigger motor and still be legal?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

No -- It is not only the engine pod that must handle the power. That power is transmitted to the deck and pontoons. The force of the motor pushing the boat puts a great deal of stress on the attachment points between the deck and pontoons and on the framework of the deck. So unless you are strength of materials expert in mechanical engineering, you are taking a serious liability risk. If you don't have the pontoon yet, there are lots of them out there that are rated for that amount of power. With gas prices the way they are I'd think you would be happy with a 22/24 with an engine considerably smaller and less thirsty and give up a couple of MPH.

 

[new_boater]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

OK thanks for the advice

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

What is the max HP rating for the boat? Does the boat still have it's Coast Guard spec plate?

 

[5150abf]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

As Silvertip said get a boat that is already rated for that power, shouldn't be too hard.

Our basic motor pan is rated at 150 horse and has been since 1997, I'm sure others are as well.

And I would look into the cost of doing a rebuild, 7 ply marine plywood is @ $50-60 a sheet, throw in carpet, fasteners, furniture ect and you may be money and time ahead to just buy a decent used toon with a motor already on it.
My 2 pennies.

 

[cuzzx]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I ran a 18ft toon for years on the bay at pc,florida with an oversized motor. the toon was insured and each time i was checked by the marine patrol they never looked at the max capacities plate or motor size. my toon called for a 50hp and i ran a 75hp.

on the rebuild you will have one problem that might jump up and bite you in the buttox and that is the max cap plate. your toon will have to have that with the right size motor to get your toon registered.

thats all i got to say about that.

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I ran a 18ft toon for years on the bay at pc,florida with an oversized motor. the toon was insured and each time i was checked by the marine patrol they never looked at the max capacities plate or motor size. my toon called for a 50hp and i ran a 75hp.

on the rebuild you will have one problem that might jump up and bite you in the buttox and that is the max cap plate. your toon will have to have that with the right size motor to get your toon registered.

thats all i got to say about that.

Just b/c you overpowered a boat does not make it a good idea.... If you ever were caught when being checked I guarentee the consequences would not be worth the extra 25hp...
Secondly, if you were ever in an accident with your overpowered vessel, the lawyers would have a really good time making sure any money you have earned or ever will earn goes to the other party.... and your insurance company will be happy to use your untruthfulness about the size of your engine as justification for hanging you out to dry...

 

[Silvertip]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

Did you actually tell the insurance company your toon was overpowered by 50%? As for never being questioned, many people speed while driving their car and never get caught. They drink and drive and never get caught, they do drugs and never get caught -- but that doesn't make it legal or safe. This poster asked for advice. He received meaningful advice. He didn't need advice on how to break the law.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I have a family member who was a member of the Florida Marine Patrol /FWC for close to 30 years. I was told that once you buy a boat you can put what ever on that will float. Once you purchase a register your boat, the CG data plate is guide line for manufacturers and licensed boat dealers, and that since you can register boats as "home made" those guidelines do not apply to persons modifying/rebuilding/building from scratch their own boats. Putting a 350 HP motor on 12' toon may make it un-insurable, and it may be a strong violation of common sense, but it isn't against the law in Florida, and probably not in most other states either.
Now, if you build a boat that is designed to carry passengers for commercial purposes, it must be Coasty approved, but if you build yourself a boat for your own recreation, this is one area where you still enjoy the freedom America was founded on.
So lets say you rebuild this toon and hang a 115 on it, and the engine pod can't handle the stress and suffers a sudden and catastrophic failure, killing everyone on board, if the boat is insured as you built it, they may cover it because before they insure it in the first place they must perform due diligence to make certain the craft is not patently unsafe, notwithstanding fraudulent or misleading information regarding the capacities and specifications of the vessel provided by the insured. If it isn't covered, or if it's not insured at all, your liability goes to your estate.
Since you are discussing rebuilding an old toon, I'm guessing your not Bill Gates, and your assets and estate don't amount to the national debt. All things considered, put an engine pod on the boat that will support the motor (if the one that's on the boat won't already handle it) and build the damn boat the way you want to. It's your boat. If you have any questions regarding the legality of the build, consult your local water police (FWC or whatever) and see what the LAW states, and consult with a pontoon bot dealer about the rated cpapcity of the boat in question, and talk to an insurance agent who knows about insuring boats to the straight dope on the topics discussed in this thread.

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I have a family member who was a member of the Florida Marine Patrol /FWC for close to 30 years. I was told that once you buy a boat you can put what ever on that will float. Once you purchase a register your boat, the CG data plate is guide line for manufacturers and licensed boat dealers, and that since you can register boats as "home made" those guidelines do not apply to persons modifying/rebuilding/building from scratch their own boats. Putting a 350 HP motor on 12' toon may make it un-insurable, and it may be a strong violation of common sense, but it isn't against the law in Florida, and probably not in most other states either.
Now, if you build a boat that is designed to carry passengers for commercial purposes, it must be Coasty approved, but if you build yourself a boat for your own recreation, this is one area where you still enjoy the freedom America was founded on.
So lets say you rebuild this toon and hang a 115 on it, and the engine pod can't handle the stress and suffers a sudden and catastrophic failure, killing everyone on board, if the boat is insured as you built it, they may cover it because before they insure it in the first place they must perform due diligence to make certain the craft is not patently unsafe, notwithstanding fraudulent or misleading information regarding the capacities and specifications of the vessel provided by the insured. If it isn't covered, or if it's not insured at all, your liability goes to your estate.
Since you are discussing rebuilding an old toon, I'm guessing your not Bill Gates, and your assets and estate don't amount to the national debt. All things considered, put an engine pod on the boat that will support the motor (if the one that's on the boat won't already handle it) and build the damn boat the way you want to. It's your boat. If you have any questions regarding the legality of the build, consult your local water police (FWC or whatever) and see what the LAW states, and consult with a pontoon bot dealer about the rated cpapcity of the boat in question, and talk to an insurance agent who knows about insuring boats to the straight dope on the topics discussed in this thread.

The take home point here is that you should do the research and take all proper precautions before overpowering a boat. Check with state regualtions in the waters that you will be operating the boat. If you want to put a larger motor than the manufacturer called for on you vessel, I would see nothing wrong with that as long as you made the necessary structural upgrades, alerted your insurance company to the situation, and were within the bounds of state regualtions. Do not, however take anyones word for what is and what is not legal... find it in writing and document it. SoulWinner has just proven this point for me. According to the Florida state boating regualtions, "No person may operate a monohull boat of less than 20 feet in length while exceeding the maximum weight, persons, or horsepower capacity as displayed on the manufacturer's capacity plate." (http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/statelaws/Florida.html)
Granted this reguation does not emcompass all watercraft, it does prohibit Florida boaters from hanging a Evinrude 250 off of the back of a john boat. This apparently goes against SoulWinner and his faimly member with 30 years in the FMP, but it is the law and thats what matters.

And again... If somone is killed by an overpowered boat that loses control, the lawyers will take everything that person has. Even if the insurance company knows about the overpowering, there is no guarentee that a judge won't call it neglect on your part and deem the operator responsible. To me, the liability alone is enough to discourage overpowering. Even if your state does not outlaw it, it can still be called neglegance by a judge...

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

According to the Florida state boating regualtions, "No person may operate a monohull boat of less than 20 feet in length while exceeding the maximum weight, persons, or horsepower capacity as displayed on the manufacturer's capacity plate." (http://www.boatus.org/onlinecourse/statelaws/Florida.html)
Granted this reguation does not emcompass all watercraft, ...

Ah ha! Excellent research. I looked for this for about a half hour and couldn't find it, before making my last post. I couldn't find it in the online Florida statutes. Obviously though, this statute doesn't apply to pontoons, and not to any boat over 20'.
It seems though that most respondents to this thread would be happier living in a socialist dictatorship than in a free country.

 

[pugbro]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

I agree with 99% of the above replies...I am in the process of rebuilding a pontoon that I bought from a relative, sight unseen, and have been kicking myself in the rear ever since...As stated above, go out and look on ebay, craigslist and others...There are plenty of good used pontoons out there that wont require a arm and leg to get in great shape. I will end up having less in this boat than a new one but will have much more than what I could have had in a good used boat in better condition. I am down to the bare pontoons and cross braces. The only thing that was good was the engine.

The next thing is the larger engine..I checked with the DNR (Ga) and they pretty well echoed the remarks above..When you insure your boat the agent is going to ask what the boat is rated for (HP) and most likely will want to see the boat and the rating sticker.
But the one thing that caused me to stop looking for a larger engine was when the DNR man told me that if I were 1 HP over the rating of the boat and I was anchored and someone ran into me and decided to sue, first the insurance co is not going to pay one cent and second when they take you to court, their lawyers are going to have a field day...Not only will you not have a boat, you can kiss you car, house, first born and anything else you have of value good by....Safety is your main concern! If you just gotta have that big engine, buy a boat that is rated for the big engine.
Good Luck

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

their lawyers are going to have a field day...Not only will you not have a boat, you can kiss you car, house, first born and anything else you have of value good by Good Luck

Lawyers. Phhht! They suck.....

Oh, and by the way, look at chapter two:

327.52 Maximum loading and horsepower.--

(1) Except for sailboats, canoes, kayaks, and inflatable boats, this section applies to all monohull motorboats less than 20 feet in length that are: manufactured or used primarily for noncommercial use; leased, rented, or chartered to another for the latter's noncommercial use; or engaged in the carrying of six or fewer passengers for hire.

(2) No person shall sell or offer for sale any vessel described in subsection (1) unless said vessel displays the maximum capacity information as prescribed in 33 C.F.R. part 183. This shall not apply to resales, but it is the intent of this section to require dealers and manufacturers to furnish this information upon the original sale.

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

Ah ha! Excellent research. I looked for this for about a half hour and couldn't find it, before making my last post. I couldn't find it in the online Florida statutes. Obviously though, this statute doesn't apply to pontoons, and not to any boat over 20'.
It seems though that most respondents to this thread would be happier living in a socialist dictatorship than in a free country.

I am happy to live in a free country, however, for the safety of myself, my family and others I do see a need for regualtion and oversight of boating activities. I wish this were not the case, but it is. There are a lot of people that lack the mental capacity to be trusted to make decisions that affect the general public. If people used common sense and good judgement, there would be no need for laws barring people from operating an automobile while intoxiocated or driving 120mph. The fact is, some people make ill decisions, and as a consequence our government has to put laws into place that 99.9 percent of us would follow anyway.

Now, I do not think that anyone who overpowers their boat lacks mental capacity and judgement.... I certainly can see where there may be situations where a more powerful engine is in order and I also grant that many people with overpowered vessels drive as good and safe as anyone on the water. However, because of some people, manufacturers, dealers, and the government are obligated to set and uphold limits to protect the consumer and the public in general.... in the boating world and everywhere else. In short, the government has an obligation to protect its citizens from Mo Rons...

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

Lawyers. Phhht! They suck.....

I dont think anyone here will argue the suction of the lawyers... but they do have the ability to take lots of your belongings if you do the wrong thing.

Remember,"If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit."
Lawyers can get you out of or into a lot of trouble.

 

[new_boater]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

HEY GUYS, just remember my original question was could i refit for a larger motor and still be legal.

for all the response's it seems i would be very crazy to do so considering the liability issues at hand.

just to be clear i am not going to refit whatever i buy to handle something that is overrated for it.
my inquiry was strictly from a research standpoint some that i have the best information at hand when i am looking for the pontoon i want.

thanks all

 

[tysonnathan]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

good luck on the hunt!! hope you find a good one...

 

[papasage]

Re: higher hp motor on rebuilt pontoon

no matter what a game warden tells you and the coastguard . what is in the latest state laws is what goes . had a game warden bring me HIN # to put on 2 boats that was built prior 1973 when they didn`t put them on . now you have to have them to git a registration . even a reregistration. i asked hem about HP rating . he said i could run a bigger motor that was the mfg rating . that will cover them in case of a weak transom . they will handle a bigger motor . but like i said what is in the law book is what counts . it also said . IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE.
i have don a search on ga dnr boating regulations and there is nothing about running a bigger motor than the rating of the boat .