Gel vs Paint

[Budget33]

Hi All,

' I have a 17' 1989 Maxum bowrider and was looking to change the colours. I understand the boat was made with gel coat, so is there a special paint to use? or do I use Gel again. If I need to use gel is it brushed or sprayed. Sorry for the noob questions

Thanks for the help
Budget

 

[jc55]

Others will chime in, but I painted a boat which is trailered with automotive paint (Dupont/Nason) and it's been cleaning up great after each use. I can't leave it in for fear of bubbling and peeling. Gotta baby it and treat it like a glass slipper.

My other boat is Awlgrip. It's bullet proof, straight up gorgeous and bulletproof. It's been absolutely beat, has scratches nicks, etc but looks great. I have reason to believe it was done in 1996. I've sanded on it for filling old transducer holes with epoxy, bumped the dock, and it sits even below the water line 24/7 with no damage, blisters, or peels. My next boat will be roll and tipped with Awlgrip.

Having had it both ways, when you have to treat the boat like a crystal wine glass, it starts taking the fun out of it.

 

[SolingSailor]

I know I'm not exactly answering the OP's question, but: If the original gelcoat is in good shape, think twice about painting (which is what you'll have to do to change the colours). You will have to sand, prime, sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, and repeat, for the remainder of the boat's life. Gelcoat is very thick compared to paint, and can be buffed, waxed, and so on to keep it looking good. Once you paint you are caught in a maintenance schedule.
Just my two cents, and I also would like to hear others' opinions.

 

[jimmy wise]

it really depends on the level of paint...awl grip is a whole different beast than the 100 rustoleum trick. awl grip or high end auto paint isnt cheap. you get what u pay for

 

[zool]

Others will chime in, but I painted a boat which is trailered with automotive paint (Dupont/Nason) and it's been cleaning up great after each use. I can't leave it in for fear of bubbling and peeling. Gotta baby it and treat it like a glass slipper.

My other boat is Awlgrip. It's bullet proof, straight up gorgeous and bulletproof. It's been absolutely beat, has scratches nicks, etc but looks great. I have reason to believe it was done in 1996. I've sanded on it for filling old transducer holes with epoxy, bumped the dock, and it sits even below the water line 24/7 with no damage, blisters, or peels. My next boat will be roll and tipped with Awlgrip.

Having had it both ways, when you have to treat the boat like a crystal wine glass, it starts taking the fun out of it.

While its true Awlgrip and other thru LPU's are a bit hardier than acrylics and other urethanes and enamels, it has its drawbacks. The most notable being repairability and ease of application. True Linear Polys are meant to go on "as sprayed" or "as applied", meaning its difficult to fix those inevitable drips, drapes or peel. The other issue is its not meant to be cut and buffed, or even waxed. You wash it with soap and water, and dry it to its nice shine. Once you start compounding out imperfections and such, it loses that thin surface layer Akso Nobel is so proud of. Acrylics like the Fulthane you used, are almost as tough, are easy to apply, and can be cut and buffed to a straight arrow, and spot repairs are a breeze in comparison.

IMO, this is one of the reasons Akso came up with the Awlcraft line, which is an acrylic urethane, similar to the Nason you used.

There is hybrid midpoint choice, that is arguably as tough as Awlgrip, but a bit easier to apply and repair, that would be Dupont's Imron, or PPG's Evolution.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Paint, it holds up much better than gelcoat. Might look at some of the really high end large yachts. Westport shipyard, palmer Johnson, hatteras, etc. They are all paint over gelcoat because paint is better. Gelcoat must be put on in a thick layer 18-20 mils or it won't cure. And then sanded and buffed to get any kind of finish. Gelcoat is best left to spraying on a mold where the finish is from the mold surface.

 

[Axkiker]

If you are set on changing the colors then paint will be your easiest option. Ive applied both paint and gel coat to watercraft and can tell you from experience applying Gelcoat on a large scale is a major PITA. To apply Gel you must work fast as it wants to set up in your gun and once its applied there is a lot of wetsanding and buffing which will need to be done.

They do have some new additives which help the gelcoat lay out better. Iive just not had any chance to use it but dont feel it would make a huge difference

Now with all that said I do feel that Gelcoat is a more durable product. The biggest reason being that its considerably thicker than even the thickest auto paint. If you happen to bump a dock etc you can typically wetsand and buff out the scratch. Even if you really do some damage to Gel patching and buffing is way easier than trying to apply, match, buff etc auto paint.

Also, keep in mind that if you do try to paint your boat to a new color any scratch you get will show the underlying color through like a sore thumb.

Now with all that said I hate the green stripe on my boat. I think its hiddious. So im also contemplating painting the sides to a new color. I just know up front that it wont be as durable

Just my .02 from a guy who has done both.

 

[Budget33]

Thanks lads, looks like paint might be the way to go. Zool, Are the Dupont and PPG paints single stage or are they a base/clear

 

[zool]

Thanks lads, looks like paint might be the way to go. Zool, Are the Dupont and PPG paints single stage or are they a base/clear

They are both single stage, but both offer a clear coat if wanted. I don't see a need to clear any boat paint, in the SS application, you get a gel coat look, and clearing over whites and light colors/pastels, tends to show yellowing after some time.

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html...b/product/mar/TDS_MS600_Marine_Finishes_E.pdf

http://www.benspaintsupply.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/doc2.pdf

If you did decide to use some clear, you would want to candy it IE: (mix some clear into the final coat)...but again, its not needed, but can make an accent stripe pop.

 

[Axkiker]

After thinking about this for awhile are you just wanting to mask an accent stripe on the sides. You may very well be able to gelcoat the sides and not the top. That would limint the amount of gel needed and the time it takes to apply gel.

 

[Budget33]

I was thinking of doing 1 colour below the rub rail and another above. Charcoal grey on bottom and Atomic Orange on top.

 

[Budget33]

I was thinking of doing 1 colour below the rub rail and another above. Charcoal grey on bottom and Atomic Orange on top.

 

[jimmy wise]

fulthane is bottom of the barrel, imron is old school. they say do not c/coat if the boat stays in the water. auto clear will mold under the clear. im using genisis by sherwin williams.

 

[zool]

fulthane is bottom of the barrel, imron is old school. they say do not c/coat if the boat stays in the water. auto clear will mold under the clear. im using genisis by sherwin williams.

Fulthane is the shop line, to go up against PPG's Omni line. PPG Concept is the flagship, and well worth the premium. Imron has been around forever, but has evolved. Don't knock Imron, its still an OEM and refitters choice. . Never really understood the marine version difference from the fleet version, marketing I guess. SW G4? their fleet paint, an acrylic..never used it, but they all strive for the same purpose.

 

[jimmy wise]

no genisis urethane ss, not a nason fan. all in what you use. zool you are in the same level as i am. most people wont pay for nason,let alone imron, concept, awl grip, genesis......they want the rustoleum price but awl griplook lol. they dont understand under coat performance or cross linking. imron was ok as long as you dont sand to smooth. i use alot of dimension......sw version of nason. feel its a touch better. have you tried the rustoleum with hardener trick

 

[jimmy wise]

zool, you are right about the lpu and repair and buffing......i can do it but we both know it will fail someday. ill rephrase fulthane is a better product than alot of stuff i read about and that wasnt fair. you and i are chatting with a different level of experience. ss urethane with hardener is a great choice over some other options. as long as proper procedures are followed

 

[Axkiker]

I was thinking of doing 1 colour below the rub rail and another above. Charcoal grey on bottom and Atomic Orange on top.

Hummmm if you were only looking to cover below the rub rail I would go with Gel. It woulnt be too much work to tape off the section and apply. You could hide the seam on the underside of the bottom.

since you are looking to also cover a section on the top you may be stuck with paint. You wouldnt be able to blend 2 different colors of gel coat into one another on top.

Now IMO if you want the best of both worlds do gel on the lower half and paint on the upper. You would get the scuff resistance of Gel Coat on the lower section and the ability to blend your paint on the upper.

 

[zool]

no genisis urethane ss, not a nason fan. all in what you use. zool you are in the same level as i am. most people wont pay for nason,let alone imron, concept, awl grip, genesis......they want the rustoleum price but awl griplook lol. they dont understand under coat performance or cross linking. imron was ok as long as you dont sand to smooth. i use alot of dimension......sw version of nason. feel its a touch better. have you tried the rustoleum with hardener trick

Genisis is acrylic based, like Concept, Ful-thane, Awlcraft, ect, ect. Though I don't have a problem with Dupont, Basf, SW, ect, I pretty much only Use PPG Concept or Delfleet Evolution, mostly because I keep an abundance of the reducers, surface cleaners, primers on hand, so when I need to paint, I just pick up the paint and catalyst.

I also don't mean to dog the linear aliphatics like Awlgrip, Sterling, ect. Being polyester based, they are generally more abrasion, stain, and chemical resistant than their acrylic sisters. What I do see is a lot of techs and DIYers go about applying them like auto paint, get frustrated, and blame the product. Most SS urethanes and basecoats are applied wet on wet, usually just two coats over epoxy or wash primers. LPU's have a long out of dust time, so u need a sterile environment, and they need a dry tack coat 1st to hang the paint on, then 2-3 semi dry coats, if applied wet, they tend to sag. Then the names Awldrip or Awfulgrip come out

I love rustoleum paint, just not on cars or boats. After spending countless hours and dollars prepping a body or hull, I wont just throw on $20 Alkyd. I use it all the time on shop equiptment, cabinets, ect. I sometimes use a hardener if spraying, but If brushing, I go straight up.