Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

atimm693

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Jan 5, 2014
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56
I posted about a month ago about my Fisherman not pumping any water. The impeller had taken a set and was the problem. Because of the season and other projects I left it apart for awhile, but bought a new impeller and threw it together last week.

When I first got it I cleaned the points with some emery cloth and cleaned the carb, and put in a new fuel line. I had really rich fuel mixed because I wanted plenty of lube for that first start. It was last registered in 01 so it had sat awhile. It started and ran without much work but wouldn't pump water so I didn't run it much.

It fired right up in the barrel of water and pumped water really well. Seemed to run pretty smooth so I let it idle and cycled it through the gears and ran it through the RPM range and called it good. Ran cool and pumped water the whole time. I packed it up and took it to the test pond.

It started without any problems in the pond. I added some fresh gas and a little oil so I'm running a little closer to the 24:1 recommended mix. I've read that since mine is a 64, it should have roller bearings on the crank. Can I run it leaner on modern oil to cut down on smoke and pollution?

Whenever I give it throttle with a load it just kind of chugs and doesn't gain any rpm. Sounds to me like it's not hitting on both cylinders because it will "kick" sideways every once in awhile, like it's got a misfire. It even does it a little when revving without a load. I realize that it's a little small for a 14' tinny but it should still run a lot better than it does.

I am still running the plugs I got with it. When I pulled them they were both wet. I heated them up with a propane torch and stuck them back in but it didn't seem to help. I bought a new pair of J6C plugs to put in it today. The points and coils are original as far as I know. It has great spark when I check it, bright and blue. I bought an inline spark tester today so hopefully I can check each cylinder when it's running to narrow down the problem.

I do have a theory about why it might be fouling the plugs and not running great. The whole time I was running it (probably 30 minutes total, idling, driving, or revving) the sides of the engine stayed cool. Not even hardly warm, and the cooling water that was coming out was cold also. The day I was running it was about 50*, but the water temp is still around 35*. Shouldn't the engine warm up somewhat in that time period? It does have a thermostat that I believe is working. Is it common for them to stick open like on a car? I think if I can get it up to actual operating temperature, it would run a lot better.
 
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HighTrim

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Jun 21, 2007
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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

You are right, they do stick open. You can test them in a pan on the stove with a thermometer to see when they open, if they do.

I would stick with 24:1

What is the compression?

Are the coils new?

Inspect spark as you plan to see if you are dropping a cylinder.
 

boobie

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

Do a cylinder drop test on it to see if it's running on both cylinders. The jerking sounds like an ignition miss.
 

atimm693

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Jan 5, 2014
Messages
56
Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

You are right, they do stick open. You can test them in a pan on the stove with a thermometer to see when they open, if they do.

I would stick with 24:1

What is the compression?

Are the coils new?

Inspect spark as you plan to see if you are dropping a cylinder.

While I was running it in the barrel the engine seemed to warm up pretty good. Wasn't hot but at least warm and it was spitting out warm water. I'm wondering if it opened then for the first time in many years and stuck open. When I pulled it out it was closed.

The coils are not new. They looked pretty good when I pulled the flywheel so I am hoping they are fine.

I haven't tested the compression. It feels good and the pistons looked great when I peeked at them through the bottom of the powerhead. I'm fairly certain it is up to snuff.

Do a cylinder drop test on it to see if it's running on both cylinders. The jerking sounds like an ignition miss.

I'll give it a shot tomorrow in the barrel. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get enough load on it to make it miss but we'll find out.
 

OptsyEagle

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

There are many designs to the water circulation of outboards, however, I do believe that in yours most of the water just bypasses the cylinders walls. When the T-stat opens some of it moves up to pull heat away from the cylinders but then mixes in with the other water in the bypass before it shoots out the exhaust cavity. In my 5.5Hp, I have observed that the temperature of the water, coming out of the exhaust in the early months of the season (those cold ones), is a lot cooler then the exhausted water that comes out in July and August. Those lake temperatures have a pretty significant effect on the final temperature of the exhausted water on those 5.5Hp motors. If the T-stat is stuck open it can take forever for the water to start to warm up.

Do the T-stat test for sure, however, I doubt that is causing your power and miss issue. Do the cylinder drop test where to see if the motor can stay running on only one cylinder, by alternatingly pulling each spark plug boot while it is running. Use a fast idle for this test and insulated pliers to pull the spark plug boots. The motor should be able to run on only one cylinder so if it dies when a plug boot is pulled you will know that the other cylinder was never firing or is very weak.
 
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racerone

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

First check compression on this motor.--Then check the ignition to see if spark can jump a gap of 1/4" with a snap you can hear.----Perhaps there is a problem with the slip clutch in the lower unit.---------You carefully remove the bearing plate under the water pump for an inspection of this device.
 
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atimm693

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

I gave it a shot this morning without much luck. New plugs didn't seem to help.

My little spark tester shows that both cylinders are firing, although they are intermittent and weak. They both fire at low speed and it runs like a dream, but it quickly falls apart at high rpm. The tester's light is weak with the occasional bright pulse. I did readjust the point gap and cleaned the points a little more but it didn't help.

I noticed that the points had some pitting. Could this cause the problem? The coils look really nice, and don't seem cracked or dry-rotted. What color were the originals? These are dark brown, almost purple. It looks like they may have been replaced.

I will do a compression test just out of curiosity. I am confident it's fine, it shows no symptoms of low compression.
 
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HighTrim

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

Wrap a piece of wet/dry around a hacksaw blade if you don't have a points file. Run that through many many times until polished. Then run a business card or paper stock dipped in acetone or laquer thinner through to clean, and blow with compressed air if you have it, after setting at 020.
 

atimm693

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

I will try to polish them up some more and see what happens.

Both cylinders blew around 70 psi with my sucky tester. I'd say that is well within the threshold of a good runner.

Does anyone have any more input on the oil mixture? After running in the barrel of water for 10 minutes there is a good layer of scum and my barrel has oil slick all over it now. I realize it's not running very efficient and spitting most of the fuel/oil out the exhaust but I hate to pollute the water that badly. I believe a 65 6hp is about the same as my motor, and they are safe to run at 50:1. I am currently running it at close to 24:1.
 

racerone

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

The 64 models were ok to run on 50:1 ---Use a top quality oil.
 

nwcove

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

What's a sucky tester ??

thats any tester that doesnt give you the results you would prefer! lol
with that being said, the op should get a proper open air spark tester, and put the "sucky" neon tester at the back of the toolbox.
 

HighTrim

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

What model is your motor, I don't see it listed here. "About the same" can be dangerous. All depends on the bearings/bushings used. Need a model number to determine that.

That is totally normal for running in a barrel. You should see my barrel after running a dozen or so motors in it on a Saturday afternoon, looks like the Exxon Valdez was in my driveway. Wont be as noticeable on the water.

Clean/dress the points. IF you cannot get the pitting out, might need new ones, and new condensors. They could be failing on you. If you don't have the ability to test them, replace them.

As stated, get an open air gap spark tester. IF the spark wont jump a 1/4" gap with a bright blue ZAP!!, the ignition is not up to snuff.
 

atimm693

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Messages
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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

What's a sucky tester ??

A cheap ebay compression tester. I have had problems with the couplers leaking and giving false low readings. Although anything with some displacement seems to give accurate results.

The 64 models were ok to run on 50:1 ---Use a top quality oil.

That's what I was hoping.

thats any tester that doesnt give you the results you would prefer! lol
with that being said, the op should get a proper open air spark tester, and put the "sucky" neon tester at the back of the toolbox.


What model is your motor, I don't see it listed here. "About the same" can be dangerous. All depends on the bearings/bushings used. Need a model number to determine that.

That is totally normal for running in a barrel. You should see my barrel after running a dozen or so motors in it on a Saturday afternoon, looks like the Exxon Valdez was in my driveway. Wont be as noticeable on the water.

Clean/dress the points. IF you cannot get the pitting out, might need new ones, and new condensors. They could be failing on you. If you don't have the ability to test them, replace them.

As stated, get an open air gap spark tester. IF the spark wont jump a 1/4" gap with a bright blue ZAP!!, the ignition is not up to snuff.

I believe I have a weak ignition, on the top cylinder. At idle it runs like a sewing machine and both plugs fire. When you rev it up the top cylinder drops off. It has spark but it's weak (I can hear it snapping the plug when I pull the boot off.)

The number is 5402B, which lists as a 64 and that's what it says on the title. From what little research I've done, the early 5.5 did not have roller bearings on the crankshaft. Mine does so I can supposedly run less oil.

A new pair of points/condensers is relatively cheap so I'm gonna replace them and see what happens.

Anyone know of a good way to check the coils?
 

HighTrim

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

With a Mercotronic or Stevens tester. Ill assume you have neither though.

You can simply check the continuity, but that will be without a load on the coil. It will only test for a complete failure of the winding. You should bury the needle on the primary (coil ground to green lead running to points), and get around 3000 to 8000 ohms on the secondary (ground lead to spark plug lead).

Testing an Outboard Coil with a Multimeter using an ignition coil from the Johnson H or T
 

OptsyEagle

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Re: Fisherman 5.5 Running Rough

and if you need a better spark gap tester you can just make one. This one is a design from Leeroy. Just a piece of wood with 2 bolts and a metal piece on top. You adjust the bolts until you get a 1/4" gap. Put the spark plug boots on the bolts and ground wire to your engine block and pull the rope as hard as you can. Probably will need someone else to hold it or pull the rope. The backing is just black electrical tape to help you see if a spark is jumping the gap. Dark garages make this easier then brighter ones, as well.
 

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atimm693

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Jan 5, 2014
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Well I got a little time and motivation to fool with it this week.

I ordered new points and condensers and installed them. Gapped to .020 like it says on the flywheel.

Still runs like crap. I think it runs worse now... It idles okay but not great. Has zero throttle response and just sputters at wide open throttle. Tried cleaning the new points a little with some emery cloth. Tried adjusting them a little each way with no improvement.

I also swapped one of the coils with a known good one from a Johnson 5.5. It didn't help either. Spark seems pretty good and hot. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be. After seeing what most factory coils look like from this era, mine have to be relatively new. They also have an M stamped in them, so I think they're Mallorys.

I pulled each plug wire while running and both plugs are firing to some extent. I'm almost starting to wonder if it's fuel related. It smokes like crazy and seems like it's flooding.

I did clean the carb right after I got it. It wasn't very bad just had a little old gas in it. Like I said it idles pretty good so I don't think the carb is very dirty. I didn't put a kit in. If the float was off it would flood at idle, correct? 64 models don't have an adjustable needle, so there isn't anything I can do there.

I would appreciate any input that I can get. I am about to start pulling my hair out.
 
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