Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Hmmmm, so what would be the ideal temperature/humidity/settings for installing noodles in my boat?

(insert pot stirring smiley right here!) :D

that is a good question....

depending on how you plan to attach them to the boat.

there are two methods each had different parameters.

the first and most common is to use a wax based substance.
this wax based substance has various chemicals that,,,,,,after the nessary softening and though mixing with syliva, must be applied in a hot 98.6 degree them range with high humidity......then slowly cooled, and the humidity drops to a max of 50%.

if used out side this range.....the cure time increases 10 fold. and a proper bond to both the noodles and hull is not achieved.

the primary manufacturers of this substance are Double Bubble, and Bubbelisious, however, in a pinch, wrigglys can he used.

the second method is to use a short rigid wire. these can then be poked through the noodle, and tied to the hull.
in this case humidity and temp are not a factor, however due to the nature of the foam in the noodle, care must be taken when poking the wire through the noodle, if too much movement is on the noodle, stress will cause the noodle to break and the wire will seperate from the noodle.

for this reason, the first method is considered the best.

the thin wire can be purchased at any office supply store and is relativity cheap.
they come in boxes of 500 or a thousand, and to keep shipping down, they are bent in an oval shape.
to further disguise the product from its true intended use, it is marketed under the name "paper clips"
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,878
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

the second method is to use a short rigid wire. these can then be poked through the noodle, and tied to the hull.
in this case humidity and temp are not a factor, however due to the nature of the foam in the noodle, care must be taken when poking the wire through the noodle, if too much movement is on the noodle, stress will cause the noodle to break and the wire will seperate from the noodle.

To properly secure these 'short rigid wires' as you call them, which are passed through said noodles, what size hole should be drilled through said bilge areas of the hull? And how far apart are these holes drilled? And are the twisted bits of wire supposed to be interior or exterior to the hull. Are wire nuts an acceptable substitiute?:facepalm:

Small red wire caps would compliment my FireFlite's final cap color
:)

Please disregard most of the above ^^^ in the grips of a momentary loss of sanity and no longer have a remotely firm grip on reality.......

Little early in BC for that many wobbly pops ain't it Ward? The neighbors called, asked if you'd been giving the Beaver a bit of a rough time of it lately:eek:......

Have a good 1 ya'll.............
 

oops!

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
12,932
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Please disregard most of the above ^^^ in the grips of a momentary loss of sanity and no longer have a remotely firm grip on reality.......

Have a good 1 ya'll.............

lol.......we are boat builders........sanity and reality went out the window a long long time ago.
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,878
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

lol.......we are boat builders........sanity and reality went out the window a long long time ago.


Ask the warden, my sanity did not change drastically after adding boat building to my list of endeavors.....
 

Buckeyedude

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
236
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

lol.......we are boat builders........sanity and reality went out the window a long long time ago.

Some of us are boat builders,fishermen and waterfowl hunters! I really dont think that sanity was ever an option!
 

jasoutside

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
13,269
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

I don't even know what just happened there:confused:

Best I can figure is a weird Canadian, with over exposure to glass dust, had too much cerveza imported from Mexico, showed up and started typing here on iboats.:eek:

Oh, what a mess:facepalm:
 

Teamster

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 8, 2010
Messages
1,923
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Foam is just as important in a boat as a tiller handle is on the motor,...............
 

Peter Eikenberry

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

I wonder what this guys foam looks like?

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread....&p=3761521#top

A classic case of neglect.


Don't even get me started on Tracker. Grrrrrrrrr.. Is it too early to start drinking?

Anyway:

The white stuff is polyethelene (polyplank) used by packaging companies. The blue boards aren't tight enough to keep water from running between the ribs.

Where did you buy the polyplank? What are the blue boards?

I was very interested in the comments on putting in channels and limber holes. I was planning on creating channels that run to the bilge and putting in limber holes in the stringers and any frames. But there does need to be some sort of separation between the wood and the foam. I was considering using bubble wrap next to the wood with the bubbles toward the wood. Of course I can hear the bubbles popping every time I come off a wave (LOL) But it would created hundreds of little channels for the water to run off. But I will probably simply seal all the wood with epoxy anyway. Slightly more expensive and time consuming but solves the wood rot problem.

As for foam, polyethylene is a much better alternative than polystyrene or polyurethane. if I can get some Poly plank that would work well.
 

jigngrub

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
8,155
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Don't even get me started on Tracker. Grrrrrrrrr.. Is it too early to start drinking?

Yep! It was the TRACKERS fault that the owner left the plug in and it filled with water!:rolleyes:
 

Peter Eikenberry

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Yep! It was the TRACKERS fault that the owner left the plug in and it filled with water!:rolleyes:

I said don't get me started. Unless you want me to hijack this thread...... I could go on for days! Weeks. But that is another time and place and thread.
 

Peter Eikenberry

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Yep! It was the TRACKERS fault that the owner left the plug in and it filled with water!:rolleyes:

I said don't get me started. Unless you want me to hijack this thread...... I could go on for days! Weeks. But that is another time and place and thread.


Oh, yeah, back on topic. I found a supplier nearby that sells polyplank.
 

jasoutside

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
13,269
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Yup...

"Expanding Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats" would be the topic of this particular thread;)

(or closely related anyway)
 

jigngrub

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
8,155
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

I said don't get me started. Unless you want me to hijack this thread...... I could go on for days! Weeks. But that is another time and place and thread.

Well tell us about the bad foam in your Tracker, or start a thread of your own on how bad your Tracker was/is.

There are a lot more bad boat owners than there are bad boats.
 

Davem3

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
542
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Don't even get me started on Tracker. Grrrrrrrrr.. Is it too early to start drinking?

Yep! It was the TRACKERS fault that the owner left the plug in and it filled with water!:rolleyes:

There are a lot more bad boat owners than there are bad boats.

Okay, it will now be assumed and put into LAW that every boat ever built , will be at some point in it's poor life be owned be a moron,buffoon, imbecile, etc,etc............

Soooooooooo, TRACKER should have known that at some point, some moron would leave the boat out for a undetermined amount of time filling up the boat, and destroying the transom and making the flotation useless and beyond repair.........

okay, rant over...............

this thread should be sticky'ed, it is very informative, and when i do find a 16 to a 18 foot starcraft tinner, i will use this thread as part of my restoration project.

many different ideas, many different solutions and lots of great ideas here............
 

Peter Eikenberry

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
408
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Actually it had nothing to do with flotation, and it wasn't my boat, So it deserves it's own thread (It could be a book on how not to treat your customers) I was the guy at the USCG that had to deal with Tracker concerning a problem on a Mako (Mako was bought by Tracker), that took over a year to get resolved. We came close to taking them to court and slapping them with a big fine. It would have worked out to about half a mil.

Nuff said back on track (oops, no pun intended)
 

Buckeyedude

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 4, 2012
Messages
236
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

I was originally going to pour foam on my rebuild, but that was when i had full intentions of using alum for my decking. Since im not going to use alum, i am choosing to use pool noodles. Since what i have read and viewed on here, plus the time and money spent on my rebuild, i cant see using or spending the money for the pourable foam. I feel comfortable with the noodles and sealed wood decking doing the job for me. Im building my decking with a "spill over edge" design and adding the security of 2 floor drains just in case the poop hits the fan!
 

jigngrub

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 19, 2011
Messages
8,155
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Here's a suggestion for all of the really smart armchair and naval architects wannabes out there that think they can design their own floatation foam plans.

How about actually TESTING your floatation foam? Has anyone had the cojones to do this? Launch the boat without the plug and see how far she sinks before the foam takes over and keeps her afloat?

I've noticed on a lot of these rebuilds that large amounts of foam have been taken out of the hull, only to be replaced with a bilge full of pool noodles. We're talking boats with 2 part foam in the bilge plus large floatation pods at the stern (much like the ones J tore out in his latest thread) and large floatation logs in the gunwales on other boats.

Who here is brave enough and sure enough of their own design to actually test it? The manufacturers have to test their boats when they build them, and I think anyone that designs their own floatation system should test it too... so you'll know what to expect if the unthinkable ever happens.

I really think this would be an interesting aspect to see of the restorations done here.

I've noticed a lot of "Lemmings" just following along on what they've seen done to other boats, and I've seen some floatation installations that I know there's no way in hell that it'll ever float the boat it was installed in.

I think it would be an outstanding deed for someone to come up with a "tried and true" floatation design that others on here could follow.
 

djpeters

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
1,824
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Here's a suggestion for all of the really smart armchair and naval architects wannabes out there that think they can design their own floatation foam plans.

How about actually TESTING your floatation foam? Has anyone had the cojones to do this? Launch the boat without the plug and see how far she sinks before the foam takes over and keeps her afloat?

I've noticed on a lot of these rebuilds that large amounts of foam have been taken out of the hull, only to be replaced with a bilge full of pool noodles. We're talking boats with 2 part foam in the bilge plus large floatation pods at the stern (much like the ones J tore out in his latest thread) and large floatation logs in the gunwales on other boats.

Who here is brave enough and sure enough of their own design to actually test it? The manufacturers have to test their boats when they build them, and I think anyone that designs their own floatation system should test it too... so you'll know what to expect if the unthinkable ever happens.

I really think this would be an interesting aspect to see of the restorations done here.

I've noticed a lot of "Lemmings" just following along on what they've seen done to other boats, and I've seen some floatation installations that I know there's no way in hell that it'll ever float the boat it was installed in.

I think it would be an outstanding deed for someone to come up with a "tried and true" floatation design that others on here could follow.

^^^One of the best posts i've read about picking a foam type^^^

These conversations do tend to irritate me. I get ripped for putting back what my boat came with, which was prolly calculated by some real engineer and is the way almost all are done since 1979. Why do all the new ones have pour in foam in them? Because it sucks? Doubt it. Oops had a good point, pierce the hull with pour in foam and you'll make it back. Pierce the hull with other types of flotation and your going to find out REAL quick weather or not you have enough flotation. Your going to put you faith in a flotation system that you can only hope will float your boat because like jigngrub pointed out it's UN-tested.

I put in what I took out, and like I posted earlier, I can easily calculate my flotation amount by how much was poured in. Still seems like a no-brainer to me. At least until someone can produce some hard facts of another system.

Don't mean to sound like a crazy man here, but, this thread will more than likely be searched for alot, and just want anyone wanting to "improve" their boat to consider that it was a tested, safe boat when it left the factory and maybe it doesn't need improving.
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,878
Re: Expanding (pour in) Flotation Foam and Aluminum Boats

Here's a suggestion for all of the really smart armchair and naval architects wannabes out there that think they can design their own floatation foam plans. How about actually TESTING your floatation foam? Has anyone had the cojones to do this? Launch the boat without the plug and see how far she sinks before the foam takes over and keeps her afloat? I've noticed on a lot of these rebuilds that large amounts of foam have been taken out of the hull, only to be replaced with a bilge full of pool noodles. We're talking boats with 2 part foam in the bilge plus large floatation pods at the stern (much like the ones J tore out in his latest thread) and large floatation logs in the gunwales on other boats. Who here is brave enough and sure enough of their own design to actually test it? The manufacturers have to test their boats when they build them, and I think anyone that designs their own floatation system should test it too... so you'll know what to expect if the unthinkable ever happens. I really think this would be an interesting aspect to see of the restorations done here. I've noticed a lot of "Lemmings" just following along on what they've seen done to other boats, and I've seen some floatation installations that I know there's no way in hell that it'll ever float the boat it was installed in. I think it would be an outstanding deed for someone to come up with a "tried and true" floatation design that others on here could follow.

^^^One of the best posts i've read about picking a foam type^^^ These conversations do tend to irritate me. I get ripped for putting back what my boat came with, which was prolly calculated by some real engineer and is the way almost all are done since 1979. Why do all the new ones have pour in foam in them? Because it sucks? Doubt it. Oops had a good point, pierce the hull with pour in foam and you'll make it back. Pierce the hull with other types of flotation and your going to find out REAL quick weather or not you have enough flotation. Your going to put you faith in a flotation system that you can only hope will float your boat because like jigngrub pointed out it's UN-tested. I put in what I took out, and like I posted earlier, I can easily calculate my flotation amount by how much was poured in. Still seems like a no-brainer to me. At least until someone can produce some hard facts of another system. Don't mean to sound like a crazy man here, but, this thread will more than likely be searched for alot, and just want anyone wanting to "improve" their boat to consider that it was a tested, safe boat when it left the factory and maybe it doesn't need improving.

I just want to point out that these have the same point of view, pro foam, which is fine by me, but only 1 tends to be helpful. The other tends to be more of the 1 thing we all have in common in addition to our own opinions........

Not unlike the junk glasser & foam thread. Glad you got it off your chest, done w/ the rants yet?

But, then it is JUST IMHO, and as I've said many times: My 2cents is only worth about $0.015.

Oh, & to be clear: Thanks for being helpful Dave:)
 
Top