Engine swap issues?

[C.Walker]

Re: Engine swap issues?

I'll put a battery in it and try to start it if it's safe. I wasn't sure if the wiring was ok since some of it is uncovered. What's a stringer drive? and how does it differ from the Merc? I noticed the merc has hydraulic trim adjustment, and this one has some kind of gearing.

I left the pictures big so you might be able to tell if anything important was corroded or broken. Does it run straight seawater though it for cooling? I saw a heat exhanger on the merc but not on this.

 

[Don S]

Re: Engine swap issues?

I'll put a battery in it and try to start it if it's safe. I wasn't sure if the wiring was ok since some of it is uncovered. What's a stringer drive? and how does it differ from the Merc?

NO BODY can look at those pictures and tell you if everything is SAFE enough to test run. That is going to take some mechanical ability to look at things you can't see, knowing what is required for an engine to run. and knowing how to do it.
Personally, I think you are so far past your abilities with this project that you need to forget the whole thing. You don't even know what questions to ask.
Have you ever done mechanical work on an engine before?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Engine swap issues?

OMC stringer drives are an integral unit with the motor. The transom supports nothing. All of the load is carried by the assembly's mounting to the stringers. There is a boot that keeps water from entering the boat, between the intermediate housing and the the transom.

With most all other drives, there is signifigant apparatus mounted directly to the reinforced transom. The outdrive bolts to that apparatus. The drive and the engine are connected only by a drive shaft that goes thru the transom apparatus to a coupler on the flywheel. They also use U-joints to enable the drive to be trimmed or tilted up. In this scenario, a precise alignment is required or things will wear out and blow up.

The stringer drive was simpler, but OMC did not stay on top of updates and improvements that led to their demise.

 

[C.Walker]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Yes, i've rebuilt multiple engines. I'm building a heavily modified Jeep motor right now. I can work on transmissions, differentials, etc. So I have a basic idea on how the drives work and how to repair them, and if you strip all the boat/marine stuff off the engine, I can rebuild it. It's just that it has things I haven't seen before.... like that little box with wires screwed onto it, and the plate above the motor with some kinda angle indicator on it and switches... I haven't really worked with carbs on anything other than small engines, as they are rather old technology.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Just don't run it without water!

 

[C.Walker]

Re: Engine swap issues?

I just found out how the OMC stringer drive works. The whole engine rocks forwards and back to control trim? That's rediculous!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Engine swap issues?

I just found out how the OMC stringer drive works. The whole engine rocks forwards and back to control trim? That's rediculous!

From your picture I see that you have the optional front mount trim mechanism. It is not rediculous, it is ingenious. Once you see the complexity of the the Merc/Volve/Omc Cobra systems you will wish that OMC had stuck to their stringer concept.

Until you have experienced gimbals, gimbal bearings, u-joints, universal joints, exhaust bellows, u-joint bellows, hydraulic lift cylinders and pumps and a myriad of other complex BS, you will not appreciate the merit of what you have.

All that being said, they are out of bidna and it is getting harder to find people with working experience with the drives.

Don't run it with the drive tilted up and don't run it without water.

 

[C.Walker]

Re: Engine swap issues?

What's the optional front mount trim mechanism? How the heck do I control the trim or tilt it up at all? I have no switch for that and no rocker switch on the throttle lever?

I have Blower, Pump, Nav/Anc, Acc1, Acc2, a key lock cylinder, and a plain looking throttle lever, and a few gauges and thats it. :/

 

[tie_one_on]

Re: Engine swap issues?

C.Walker, welcome to iboats. My suggestion would get a hold of manuals for these engine set ups. Factory manuals are best. Look them over, study them and learn the terms and technology. Some members can become down right nasty and insulting if someone new comes here and asks some out of the box questions without a basic understanding. You might be able to get the manuals at your local library.
One thing for certain, please heed all the advice about not trying to make a car engine from a company that never participated in the marine world to work.
I love projects myself, but from your pictures, I can see you'll have your work cut out. Good luck.

 

[DukesFin]

Re: Engine swap issues?

C.Walker...

Please don't take this as me trying to be rude or put you down, but...

Listen to the folks on here. I know you can rebuild a motor, and that will come in handy in the future, but you should walk away from this project, or buy it and set it in your garage for a year or so. Buy another boat with an I/O set up that runs well and needs no immediate work. Find out how this whole "boat motor/drive" thing works.

I appreciate all of your zeal in wanting to understand this stuff but your question of "How the heck do I control the trim or tilt it up at all?" tells me that you need some MARINE experience (as far as basics on how they operate under "normal" circumstances).

Really, unless you have very deep pockets to repair what you fix after you found out why/how you did somthing wrong, you will end up having a $20K project and at this point, I worry for your safety if you end up trying to put this boat in the water.

I would imagine that if this boat ran right now, you'd put it in the water without knowing why to turn on the blowers or to check the outdrive boot. The prior will explode and the latter will sink you.

Really, if you need this boat, get it but let it sit while you read every word of the shop manual, USCG requirements, this message board and also while you ride in and learn from a working boat.

I want you to have a good time on the water, but it won't happen if you jump in "head-first" without knowing what you are getting into.

Good luck whatever you decide, but be careful and follow the wonderful advice that is given here on this board for free!

 

[aerwin]

Re: Engine swap issues?

amen to that , there is soo much stuff in a boat that is different than a car, saftey and mechanicly. getting stuck on the water will ruin a nice day, tempers flair, get something that is newer and in real good mechanical shape, the money you tryed to save will be long gone, in repairs and the good time factor. a good boat is priceless. as far as the omc. get to know it real well. they are out of busniness and that drive technology is old. I have one, without the front end tilt, although it does work really well. it can be a problem in the future with parts getting harder to find.

 

[andy1canada]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Howdy from Canada, CW...

Amen, on Dukesfin's comments.

Lotta' people here have been down the 'beater' boat road before (count me among them!).

Yep... "damn-tootin' Newton, I'm gonna' fix'er up fer' next to nothin' and I'll have me one fine little cruiser..."

What a foolish dreamer I was!

My first boat - a 71' Fiberform/18ft./140 Merc. IO - was a veritable "hole-in-the-water" into which I poured copious quantities of my hard-earned cash. For what I pissed-away into that old boat I could have bought a near new one.

Take the advise of the good 'learned-souls' on this forum; they know there stuff.

Or, you could ignore them and take my advise instead:
SELL IT, OR WALK AWAY FROM iT!

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Cheers,
Terry

 

[Bondo]

Re: Engine swap issues?

That's rediculous!

Ayuh,.......

What will be Rediculous is If you proceed to Buy that POS,+ Attempt to restore it............

I looked at your photos,........
The T-Stat Housing is Cracked,......
That tells Me that it was Frozen with Water in it.......

That boat in the pictures is Nothing but a Few parts that Might be used on Another boat that somebody is Trying to get 1 more lap out of.......

If you were to take on that as a Project Boat,......You'll end up $pending about Twice what you could Buy a Running Boat For................

Sorry to be so Blut,...... But it's the Truth...........

 

[C.Walker]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Well, i've been on and driven other people's boats before. And I know about the blower and gas fumes and everything... I usually know how to control the trim.. I was j/w on this one because there is no control switch for it anywhere. I will buy the factory service manuals for this setup. I wan't really interested in boats until I saw this one and I really liked the way it looked. I'd rather buy a cheap one that needs work, cuz it's a reason to go over the entire thing and customize it to my liking. Paint it my own colors, make my own upholstry, speakers, lighting, etc...

Like I said, i'll rebuild the OMC engine/drive and use it for a little while until I decide what to do with it next. I saw one of the same year that had an OMC cobra sterndrive, so I imagine the transom can handle a load if I ever swap it.

Also, does anyone reccomend a good book or somehting for a beginning boater that I can read?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Good Luck..........

Like I said, i'll rebuild the OMC engine/drive and use it for a little while until I decide what to do with it next.

That'll Only set ya back $3,000.00 to $6,000.00...........

IF there's Anything to Salvage............

 

[tommays]

Re: Engine swap issues?

We are trying to help YOU

Your current drive is held in place buy the motor LIKE a car motor holds the tranny

The newer drives are held buy the transome which is built compleatly different to allow this

Parts just do not swap around like you use to on a car the motor and drive are all matched sets

Tommays

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Engine swap issues?

One possibility you might consider is an outboard bracket. You can plug the outdrive hole any way that works and hang the bracket over it, anchoring it into good solid transom meat. It would be more practical than reconstituting the transom for a transom-drive I/O. Then hang an outboard or two.

When the boats are molded, they all have the same transoms. The holes are cut for the drive that is going to go into it. MerCruiser and Cobra use farily small holes and the forward thrust of the drive is applied directly to the transom. OMC stringer drives have all of the forward thrust applied through the motor and into the stringers it's attached to. The single hole in the transom is very large. What you would need to attach a MerCruiser or Cobra mount to isn't there. If you merely plug the hole, you're pushing on the plug. You have to make absolutely certain that it as at least as strong as if the transom were one piece.

For now I'd say see what it does as-is and go from there. You might be able to upgrade to a 3L fairly easily if the block is trashed. I hear the new ones are coming out with Vortec heads. I've always wondered what a Marine quadra-jet would do for a 3L. Somebody makes adapters for mounting 2-barrel carbs on 4-barrel manifolds. Flip one upside-down with a heat isolator for a spacer between the adapter and carb. It wouldn't be no 300Hp, I'm guessing 150+.

 

[mtnrat]

Re: Engine swap issues?

I will bet by looking at all the leaf and organic matter that the floor and stringers will need to be replaced.
So were at 3-6 grand for engine and drive rebuild.
I'll tack on another 2 for a new floor and stringers(if you do it yourself).
Another grand or so for the interior(if you do it yourself).
Since you are already there and it looks like the wiring is bad, I would rewire the entire boat(more cash and time)

So you would be at 6-8 thousand minimum and you would still have an old boat with a little OMC that likely barely pushes that thing and most certainly couldn't pull up a grown man on a slalom ski.
OR.....you could start looking and find a great boat with a more modern drive(volvo or mercruiser).
If you like the looks of that boat let me assure you there are a million boats that look similar and have been maintained and need a new home.
I have what is to me a beautiful old 1981 deep V that I am spending a TON of cash on only because my wifes deceased father bought it for her when she was 18 and it holds alot of sentimental value. Will it be worth the time and money I put into it. No way. Would I be doing this on another boat of the same vintage etc. Nope. I would take all the money I am spending on this and get a better boat that I do not have to totally rebuild.

This is the boat and by the time I am finished I will have about 8-10 thou into it. and many months of engine, fiberglass and paint work. That was how it looked before I started the resto. Notice the roller trailer. That created alot of hook that I will be dealing with(big pain in the @$$. The floor had one soft spot, I cut into it and subsequently found the floor and stringers were totally rotten. Unexpected but almost normal in a boat of this age.
If you get the boat first get out the wallet(boat stands for Bring On Another Thousand), and put aside alot of time, and be in possession a tenacious character. It can be done
When I am done, it will be sweet, better than new and really fast though.
Cheers,

 

[ziggy]

Re: Engine swap issues?

ya might also want to probe the wood on that boat with an ice pick. transom, stringers where ya can see them. floor. make sure you've got wood and not wet rotted sawdust to attach anything too. i/o or ? my last boat i pulled one front motor mount lag bolt and new i was sol. the bolt screw threads were rusted down to about no screw threads. and even with a new bolt i was not able to even come close to torqein down a ft. motor mount lag bolt...i needed new stringers...
ya could look at where the drain plug goes too. if it's got a dark brown stain runing from the hole. that's a sign of rotted wood drippin out the hole i think.... i'd make sure ya've got something to work with before spendin any bread on anything to motivate it.......

 

[180shabah]

Re: Engine swap issues?

Don't plan on selling this boat when you are done. You will never recoup your money. You are ging to spend thousands just to get it runing, plus interior, paint and any structural repairs that may be needed.

I bought a boat two years ago as part of an estate settlement. It had been sitting for six or seven years unused. It was covered the entire time, but still unused. The interior was perfect and the engine and drive were solid with less than 50 hours use. I still spent over a grand on all of the "little" stuff. Belts, hoses, battery, water pumps(both) Carb rebuild, fuel pump, filters, drive bellows and seals, etc.....