E10 Survey.-

[Sea Rider]

It's mentioned on the forums that everybody blames E10 fuels for just about everything. Have well documented issues with E fuels as been in the transition between E and non E fuels and know the "issues" they produce. The list goes :

-Tank air vent screw doesn't screw in, seals anymore tight due to damaged threads.
-Fuel filter is very hard to unscrew from cap due to filter thread elongation inside upper cap.
-Fuel filter looks yellowish compared to a clear one as when factory delivered
-Small fuel filter small and large o'rings inside cap falls when cup is unscrewed.
-Fuel pump thin rubber diaphragm will not match fuel pump body when taken out due to elongation & deformation.

It's mentioned on every Owner's Manual that the use of E fuels will corrode metal parts, detereorate rubber and plastic components much faster along some other issues than non E fuels. Would like to know if any Tohatsu forum member has been undergoing some of these issues, if so, which ?

Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

I have a 4HP Tohatsu. Never had a problem. In fact it loves E10....gobbles it up!

 

[pvanv]

If one is religious about proper fuel system operation (running only fresh fuel, running out the carb at the end of the day, etc.), E-10 should work OK. It will act a wee bit lean, but it will work. Non-E is usually available only in Premium octanes, which often have a better overall additive package (with nore detergents, etc.), so non-E is usually a batter gas.

Of course, if buying from a multi-grade pump, be sure to run the first couple of gallons into the car tank, as the hose, pump, and selector valve are likely all full of ethanol fuel, so filling a small 3-gallon tank with, say 2/3 ethanol gas and 1/3 non-ethanol gas defeats the purpose of paying extra for non-ethanol gas, and you may end up with E-6 or maybe E-8 instead of non-E or E-10.

Any water in any fuel will corrode aluminum fuel system parts. Ethanol blends attract water right from the air. You do the math.

Again, the rule is to go with good, fresh fuel.

 

[Sea Rider]

Paul,

What if all the points you have mentioined are religiously made, not at a church though LOL!! We don't have non E fuels anymore, all are 90-95-97-96 E8 fuels. Been in the process running both non E and E fuels and every mechanic down here agrees that E gives way more issues than before. So will need to live with it or get united and sue the Pertol Company for damages....

Not saying that E doesn't work well, all my OB's runs top idle to max wot, saying that on carbed engines will have more detereoration issues with rubber and plastic parts than on cars which all are inyected now a days including some middle range OB's.

To simplify the post, would you say that when unscrewwing off fuel filter from cap it unscrews easily with fingers and slight pressure or need full hand or even a wrench of some sort to do so ? If hard to unscrew with hand, you're corraborating one of the points mentioned without knowing about it. Let's see if any Tohatsu forum member chimes in with some of the stated "issues".

Happy Boating

 

[pvanv]

Luis,

There is no doubt that ethanol blend gasolines are a bad idea; they cost more to make, produce fewer BTU's when burned, and invite corrosion. The total carbon footprint is awful in the US, because of the 1-runoff pollution from the chemical fertilizers used; 2-diesel that is used to plant, grow, and harvest the corn (that could otherwise be food). Yes, there are costs of the deterioration of plastics and rubbers that were not formulated for ethanol.

If systems were designed from the ground up for ethanol (as in Brazil), it would not be so bad. Ditto if scrap sugar cane were used (as in Brazil) instead of planting corn for the source of the alcohol.

 

[Sea Rider]

Paul,

Had the oportunity to talk to a brazilian rescue team about fuels, said that their E content is around 70% and experiencing horrible issues with carbed OB's as well. Is there such a difference say E10 made from corn to a E8 made from sugar cane ? Will be an excellent idea for OB parts suppliers to reformulate actual production of rubber and plastic parts to hold better dealing with E fuels whether is used or not.

Happy Boating

 

[Sea Rider]

This is what's posted in every Tohatsu HP Owner's Manual, it's not a personal issue LOL!!



Happy Boating

 

[bruceb58]

it's not a personal issue LOL!!

Me thinks it is....LOL

Aren't you the one that claims E10 corroded the outside of your engine? :facepalm:

 

[Sea Rider]

Me thinks it is....LOL

Aren't you the one that claims E10 corroded the outside of your engine? :facepalm:

Nope, wasn't me. I'm the one with E fuels faster rubber and plastic parts deterioration issues...LOL!!

Happy Boating

 

[82rude]

Hers food for thought.With the massive glut of oil and the lower barrel cost why are e fuels even needed.Paul as for the corn you don't want to eat it its not your stores corn.All the excess sluge is shipped for cattle feed which brings the question,which is better,e-cows or non e cows?

 

[bruceb58]

E fuels are needed for emissions as an oxygenator. Replaces MTBE that used to be used until it was finding its way into groundwater.

 

[82rude]

What about super then ?Couldn't something else be used?Personally I don't worry about e-10 its a fact of life where I live and ive never had issues ever..I would surmise that a lot of issues with e-10 are just the price you pay for having a dirty fuel system and e 10 is a great cleaner so the results are a forgone conclusion.

 

[bruceb58]

What about super then ?

Depends on where you live. In certain metro areas, its used as an oxygenator in all octane grades.

The only issue I have is that it has less BTUs that 100% gasoline.

 

[pvanv]

Depends on where you live. In certain metro areas, its used as an oxygenator in all octane grades.

The only issue I have is that it has less BTUs that 100% gasoline.

Yes. And it costs 4 times more to produce, And it corrodes metal. Bad stuff.

 

[dingbat]

Paul,

Had the oportunity to talk to a brazilian rescue team about fuels, said that their E content is around 70% and experiencing horrible issues with carbed OB's as well. Is there such a difference say E10 made from corn to a E8 made from sugar cane ? Will be an excellent idea for OB parts suppliers to reformulate actual production of rubber and plastic parts to hold better dealing with E fuels whether is used or not.

Happy Boating

Just to make sure we're on the same page, E-10 in the US is only 10% ethanol.
Ethanol resistant (viton) o-rings and gaskets have been around for years. The carbs on 1997 Evinrude V6 have OEM viton (typically brown) gaskets and o-rings

 

[82rude]

I'm beginng to believe those mfg warnings are C.Y.A speak and nothing more.

 

[bruceb58]

Yes. And it costs 4 times more to produce, And it corrodes metal. Bad stuff.

There have been studies that show that is BS. I have been using E10 my boat's entire life. When I took off the top of the carb to look at the float chamber....zero corrosion.

Last weeekned, I replaced the fuel pump and filter in my Lexus GS300 with 190K miles. I looked in the bottom of the tank expecting something in there. Not one bit of corrosion or anything for that matter. If E10 is really that corrosive, I would be seeing something! It was brand new looking!

As far as the 4x cost, not sure where you got that number. They say the energy equivalent cost of Ethanol to gasoline is around $3.80/gallon

 

[bruceb58]

I'm beginng to believe those mfg warnings are C.Y.A speak and nothing more.

Me too. How come Mercury doesn't have those same warnings? Yamaha doesn't either.

 

[Sea Rider]

Just to make sure we're on the same page, E-10 in the US is only 10% ethanol.
Ethanol resistant (viton) o-rings and gaskets have been around for years. The carbs on 1997 Evinrude V6 have OEM viton (typically brown) gaskets and o-rings

We're on same page and book.

USA 10% E content
Peru 8% E content
Brazil 70% E content, works fine on injected cars, awfull resuts on old carbed cars and OB's as well.

This is a specific Tohatsu issue and rebadged brands as well, their diaphragms are black rubber, differente materials compared to viton, mylar or whatever other brands uses. We're talking extrictly about carbed OB's, nothing to do with cars as all are injected now a days with 0 E fuel issues along corrosion as well.

Happy Boating

 

[km1125]

I try not to run E-anything in my boat and outboards but there shouldn't be an issue with E-10 after about 1996. Anything manufactured has to comply with the availability of E-10. There's a push now to go to E-15 and the boat industry is fighting it pretty hard and have a lot of data to back up their concerns. Go to the Boat U/S site and do a search there and you can find a lot of info.

On an outboard that I just picked up (4HP Nissan), I took the fuel pump apart to clean it. What I found was aluminum corrosion around the nipples and that corrosion was built up inside the pump. This is after the filter, so eventually that would have been sucked into the carb and blocked something.


I'd be surprised if ALL manuals didn't have some warnings against Gasohol, especially as the automotive pumps will start to migrate to E-15, which is NOT recommended by any marine manufacturer that I know of. But they do have to "accept" up to 10% and run acceptably. I was a bit surprised that in Sea Rider's posted note that Tohatsu even accepts up to 5% Methanol, which I understand to be even harder on engines - especially two strokes - than ethanol.