Are bowriders really scoopers?

[kobe]

I know this is an ongoing discussion, but I wanted to get some opinions first hand. I've owned a boat with a covered bow and have recently bought a new 21ft bowrider. I never really dumped the bow of my old boat which sat considerably lower in the water than the Ebbtide.

The Ebbtide has a 20 degree deadrise with hull chines and a decent flareout on the last chine. There is minimal to nil flaring at the gunnels. I doubled up the snaps on the bowcover (now only a couple of inches apart) and have a friend fabbing a SS "umbrella" type support which will be able to fold up neatly and be deployed in seconds to brace under the cover. The ends of the tines will have a rubber Y on them to sit on the gunnels under the cover. i think that the doubled up snaps and the support should be able to take alot of water if i ever find myself in such a position. as a sidenote - our family cabin is thirty miles out the bay and we do get alot of inwind especially during the daytime. we usually run down first thing in the morning and head home in the evening (this is usually when the winds drop off)

I am not new to boating or being out in adverse weather, but this is how you learn something new.

Thx in advance for your input folks. 'tis appreciated

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

That's about all you can do in order to convert a bow rider to a closed-bow short of permanent attachments. Nothing wrong with you solution, although they make bow cover/boat cover support poles already and are fairly cheap ($20-30). That will take care of 90-95% of the water if you stuffed the bow into a wave. No reason to worry about it any more unless you really want to run in some nasty conditons, but I'd recommend a completely different style of boat if that's your intention.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

form should follow function. In my opinion the design of the bow you are referring to violates that rule: the design is for looks, but at the expense of seaworthiness.
The bow is the first line of defense against swamping, but that design does not shed or roll water on its way up; it dips in to the waves at the point, and there is nothing to shed or divert water that comes over. Furthur, in bad conditions, a lot of water can try to come in from spray, not just burying the bow, and the new bowrider design does nothing to divert it, and appears to facilitate spray coming up the sides and blowing in.
I would never recommend that design foy any use where the waves might stand up.
I know there are plenty of stories of scooped-bow boats that handled it and and flared bows that didn't, but the stories don't prove the point.
For background, when I was a teenager and in college, I took 16' bowrider starcrafts out several miles in to the Chesapeake Bay, which physically is the same as offshore, and drove through some scary squalls and big wakes. But look at the design back then--raised bow, flair and a splash rail and point that diverted water instead of drawing it in, both plowing and spraying.
A lot of people here have the old ones and I'm sure they find they work just fine, so this isn't about bowriders generally, just the contemporary design. When I first saw them I said, "are they nuts? It's a submarine."

 

[dingbat]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Water weighs 8.3 lbs per gallon. If you bury the bow, you could Easley have 100-150 gallons of water come over the bow. That?s 830- 1250 lbs of water.

As a test, set up your rig and have three big guys jump in the middle of it simultaneously. If it holds, you have a chance at it working.

 

[Pez Vela]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Keeping water out is your first line of defense. If that doesn't work, you need to get it out quickly. That is your second line of defense. A good drainage system and an adequate bilge pump (or two) would be things to consider.

 

[kobe]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Not too many small CC's out there gonna be able to withstand a 1200 lb body slam of water. Worst case scenario - generally speaking when you dip your bow a wall of green water can roll over the bow, CC's are designed to disperse the water off the bow. Granted, a large volume of rolling water will still carry considerable weight. This is much the same principle as what I am proposing, a reinforced canvas cover will still let water in because it is not watertight - but it should roll the water off the bow.

I do have a working bilge pump (which is tested before we leave the dock) and a manual bilge pump installed with a 1.5" discharge and the stern of the cockpit has two large bilge drains in it. too bad they didn't put scuppers back in fron of the engine housing/rear seat.

With all that being said - i hope to christ I never have to find out but this is boating and the weather never ever cooperates!

 

[dingbat]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Not too many small CC's out there gonna be able to withstand a 1200 lb body slam of water. Worst case scenario - generally speaking when you dip your bow a wall of green water can roll over the bow, CC's are designed to disperse the water off the bow. Granted, a large volume of rolling water will still carry considerable weight. This is much the same principle as what I am proposing, a reinforced canvas cover will still let water in because it is not watertight - but it should roll the water off the bow.

Big difference between #1200 of water rolling off solid fiberglass structure and a flexible material like canvas held in place with snaps.

# 1200 is nothing compared to the possibilities. I?ve seen windshields fold up like pancakes when hit with a wall of water.

 

[sw33ttooth]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

i had a 17 foot bow rider, once went over a 5-6 foot wave didnt take on a drop. but i guess some times your not pleasured with the abilty to go what ever way you want and if you have to go a certain way that may cause splash. your canvas idea should work great, not only for waves hitting, but for rain so it doesnt pool up in the front.

also i dont think putting 2-3 guys on your set up will do anything but break it, water is 8 pounds a gallon give or take. its not like 100 gallons just sitting there its 100 gallon splash. if your going out in water this rough your not going fast so i doubt you'll take on much if any. i would however get your bilge pump running weather you must buy a new one or rewire it to work properly.

 

[cwcollins06]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

I've been sitting in the bow (in retrospect foolishly so) of a 19' Malibu Ski boat (a friend's boat back in college) in 6' seas on Destin Bay. We took a big wave over the bow (right in my face) and she still did alright, but I've never seen anybody's hand move as fast to a bilge pump switch as the driver's did. Ultimately, we were in over our head but managed to make it out alright. I never noticed any water standing in the boat afterwards, even though my eye sockets had been freshly flushed with salt water. I'd say bowriders are for medium lakes and not much more than that without calm seas.

My boat is a 17' bowrider that has spent her entire life on the Highland lakes in Texas, but it's a trihull so we don't even have much spray in the bow. We go out on a friend's 2008 22' Cobalt Bowrider and you can't ride in the front without getting soaked with spray, so I'd have to agree with Home Cookin' about the crappy design of modern bowriders.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

I have dipped my bow(24' cuddy) into a wave when running in a following sea. A lot of water went over my windshield. I have a self draining cockpit so normally nothing goes into the bilge. No way in hell I would have been out there in an open bow...not that foolish. Also not foolish enough to have smart tabs in a condition like that. Would be extremely dangerous.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

a reinforced canvas cover will still let water in because it is not watertight - but it should roll the water off the bow.

LOL...not a chance! When there is a wall of green water going over the bow, the snaps will pop instantly.

 

[skargo]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

As much as it pains me, I have to go with dingbat and bruce58 on this one!

 

[high'n'dry]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

It seems to me that what you really need is a different boat. If you want the bow rider platform you may want to consider what is called a dual console (as opposed to a center console). They have the open boat but the broad deep lines of a seagoing hull and the decks are self bailing. I have many ti9mes taken waves completely over my BW and filled the boat to the gunwales yet is keeps on going, most similar boats with self bailing decks and sealed bilges (or no substantial bilge) and outboard power can and do take green water over the bow and keep going.

The pointy bow riders tend to dive into the wave, nose down and roll over, the bow generally just does not have enough lift to ride over waves, especially after the deck is loaded with water and no way for it to get out and as well the I/O engines stall out.

JR

 

[kobe]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Good Points made by all... Thx for that. we'll have to wait and see how she works out this summer - if a no go then another boat may be for me - who knows

 

[1stgenbird]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Good Points made by all... Thx for that. we'll have to wait and see how she works out this summer - if a no go then another boat may be for me - who knows

Is it ever summer in Goose Bay? Ha Ha!

 

[45Auto]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

All I can say is I am glad I don't take a 19' Bow Rider into waters with waves tall enough to be an issue.

I'm glad I don't take ANY size or type of boat into waters with waves tall enough to be an issue .....

 

[kobe]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

Is it ever summer in Goose Bay? Ha Ha!

Funny guy... NOT

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

one thing about selecting a boat that is safe for your conditions, is water temps; your risk of disaster is magnified with an unseaworthy boat in cold, even cool, water. Here, in the summer, you can be overboard for days; in the winter, 40 minutes. So if you don't have a seaworthy boat, you might be OK in the summer but not in the winter.

I'd like to say that the bowrider boaters around here put it all away come fall. But when the stripers are running, they are out in anything that barely floats. I saw 4 guys standing on the deck of a small cigarette fishing at night in november. Morons.

 

[DuckHunterJon]

Re: Are bowriders really scoopers?

I'll add one experience I had with my boat. The fish and ski has a bow that rapidly slopes towards the front. Coupled with low free board, and it easily takes water over the bow. I was making my way from my parents dock to the ramp one day and the waves were about 3', closely spaced. Multiple times, I had a wave over the bow - scary stuff. How does it relate to this post - I have no bow cover, just the open bow - and the waves crashed over the bow, up the windshield, and clear over me (knocked me over the back of the seat once). Point being, I believe that cover, if it holds, will only channel the water up and over the windshield and into the boat. It won't channel it to the sides and off the boat.