ziemann
Chief Petty Officer
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2004
- Messages
- 584
I know, I kinda hate these types of posts too, but since there is so much experience here I would be foolish not to ask you guys for some feedback. So, here is the story....
I originally set out to replace my old boat/ Nissan 50 TLDI with something a bit larger. I orginally had my heart set on a new Nissan 90 TLDI- in Montana there were some great dealers and the prices were great. Now that I have moved to Minnesota, there is virtually no dealer network and the prices here are extremely high for Nissan/Tohatsu. The best price I have found here is $9100 rigged. That is not even competitive here for a 90hp.
I then set my heart on a new E-Tec. I have found some fantastic deals on new E-Tecs here and they come in rigged almost $1000 less than a Nissan TLDI.
Yesterday, I ran into a dealer locally that has a brand new 2005 Lund 17' Mr. Pike with a brand new Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper to put on it. He states that there is no demand for the Johnson, therefor here would offer it to me at $5600 rigged w/ the BRP 2 year non-declining warranty. That is $2500 less than an E-Tec. I really have no experience with any outboards over 60 hp and people I have talked to state that the old Johnson design is reliable, smooth, hassle free. For those that have experience with them, what are your thoughts?????
Considerations:
1. The looper is going to use more fuel BUT, for $2500 less in initial investment, I can buy a heck of alot of fuel...
2. Resale down the road on the Johnson is going to be less- but there seems to be a loyal following still for simple 2 stroke outboards. They seem to pass the test of time and last forever...
3. I can actually work on the Johnson- it is a simple design. The E-Tec is a great motor from what I can tell, but if it breaks while I am in the Boonies in Canada, there is little I can do to diagnose it or fix it.
4. The Johnson will use more oil and is not as clean. I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. However to counter the smoke, I currently use Klotz premium synthetic 2 stroke in my snowmobiles and my Nissan TLDI outboard. It is virtually smoke free and doesn't stink. I would think if I use that in the Johnson, it will dramatically decrease the smoke and smell associated with the unclean burn.
5. The Johnson's weight is 335 pounds as opposed to the E-Tec's weight at 320 pounds. Both are extremely competitive compared to most 4 strokes.
6. I put my boats into some very shallow boat landings and weight is an issue. I have no interest in a 4 stroke for this reason. I have had previous experience with some great 2 strokes including an early 90's Mariner (Merc) 50 4 cylinder (gas hog, heavy, loved it), my Nissan 50 TLDI (loved it), a late 90's Johnson 2 cylinder 2 stroke (good motor, light, rattled alot though), a '01 Yamaha 50 4 stroke (still won't idle and troll down decent). If I am going to purchase a 2 stroke, I prefer the Johnson over the Merc 90 3 cylinder, or the Yamaha 90 3 cylinder even though they would be a bit lighter.
7. The VRO doesn't scare me- if checked and maintained (watching for air bubbles and hose problems, moisture problems, etc) it seems to work well now days.
8 THEN there comes a bit of nostalgia. With Johnson being killed off by BRP, I sorta feel sad to watch the Johnson brand fade away. This Johnson 90 has been discontinued and is the last of a dying breed, and it kinda appeals to me to have one of the last new Johnson 2 strokes.
So, here I sit at decision time. To say the least, I am dissappointed in Nissan/ Tohatsu, but there are some fantastic deals out there on competitive products. The factory rep for Tohatsu called me after I sent an email to Tohatsu, but even he admitted that there isn't a good dealer network here for me to purchase a new one. They make a fantastic product, but having a great dealer near you is priceless.
So, that leaves me to decision time. I am ready to buy a BRP product. Either the E-Tec or the Johnson probably will serve me well. I wonder how each will idle over the course of several hours each day...
Does anyone have any experience or insight they can lend to my decision making process?
Thanks to everyone in advance- Z
I originally set out to replace my old boat/ Nissan 50 TLDI with something a bit larger. I orginally had my heart set on a new Nissan 90 TLDI- in Montana there were some great dealers and the prices were great. Now that I have moved to Minnesota, there is virtually no dealer network and the prices here are extremely high for Nissan/Tohatsu. The best price I have found here is $9100 rigged. That is not even competitive here for a 90hp.
I then set my heart on a new E-Tec. I have found some fantastic deals on new E-Tecs here and they come in rigged almost $1000 less than a Nissan TLDI.
Yesterday, I ran into a dealer locally that has a brand new 2005 Lund 17' Mr. Pike with a brand new Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper to put on it. He states that there is no demand for the Johnson, therefor here would offer it to me at $5600 rigged w/ the BRP 2 year non-declining warranty. That is $2500 less than an E-Tec. I really have no experience with any outboards over 60 hp and people I have talked to state that the old Johnson design is reliable, smooth, hassle free. For those that have experience with them, what are your thoughts?????
Considerations:
1. The looper is going to use more fuel BUT, for $2500 less in initial investment, I can buy a heck of alot of fuel...
2. Resale down the road on the Johnson is going to be less- but there seems to be a loyal following still for simple 2 stroke outboards. They seem to pass the test of time and last forever...
3. I can actually work on the Johnson- it is a simple design. The E-Tec is a great motor from what I can tell, but if it breaks while I am in the Boonies in Canada, there is little I can do to diagnose it or fix it.
4. The Johnson will use more oil and is not as clean. I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. However to counter the smoke, I currently use Klotz premium synthetic 2 stroke in my snowmobiles and my Nissan TLDI outboard. It is virtually smoke free and doesn't stink. I would think if I use that in the Johnson, it will dramatically decrease the smoke and smell associated with the unclean burn.
5. The Johnson's weight is 335 pounds as opposed to the E-Tec's weight at 320 pounds. Both are extremely competitive compared to most 4 strokes.
6. I put my boats into some very shallow boat landings and weight is an issue. I have no interest in a 4 stroke for this reason. I have had previous experience with some great 2 strokes including an early 90's Mariner (Merc) 50 4 cylinder (gas hog, heavy, loved it), my Nissan 50 TLDI (loved it), a late 90's Johnson 2 cylinder 2 stroke (good motor, light, rattled alot though), a '01 Yamaha 50 4 stroke (still won't idle and troll down decent). If I am going to purchase a 2 stroke, I prefer the Johnson over the Merc 90 3 cylinder, or the Yamaha 90 3 cylinder even though they would be a bit lighter.
7. The VRO doesn't scare me- if checked and maintained (watching for air bubbles and hose problems, moisture problems, etc) it seems to work well now days.
8 THEN there comes a bit of nostalgia. With Johnson being killed off by BRP, I sorta feel sad to watch the Johnson brand fade away. This Johnson 90 has been discontinued and is the last of a dying breed, and it kinda appeals to me to have one of the last new Johnson 2 strokes.
So, here I sit at decision time. To say the least, I am dissappointed in Nissan/ Tohatsu, but there are some fantastic deals out there on competitive products. The factory rep for Tohatsu called me after I sent an email to Tohatsu, but even he admitted that there isn't a good dealer network here for me to purchase a new one. They make a fantastic product, but having a great dealer near you is priceless.
So, that leaves me to decision time. I am ready to buy a BRP product. Either the E-Tec or the Johnson probably will serve me well. I wonder how each will idle over the course of several hours each day...
Does anyone have any experience or insight they can lend to my decision making process?
Thanks to everyone in advance- Z