A new beginner AR

thumpar

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The problem with steel case has a the coating can gum up the chamber. In an AK steel is fine because the tolerances are not tight and it has a more angled casing.
 

Boomyal

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The problem with steel case has a the coating can gum up the chamber. In an AK steel is fine because the tolerances are not tight and it has a more angled casing.

Well for the difference in price, it seems an occasional problem is not a big problem. How about steel for recreation and brass for business?
 

thumpar

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I reload so only use brass. For the price difference you could save the brass and sell it to make it up.
 

MTboatguy

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I like the Matech flip up rear sight over the handle because you can use a red dot optic with them still. I have an EOtech on mine but have used the Primary arms red dot. They are not that expensive and work great.

I have a mount that goes right on the top of my handle that I can mount a scope on, I think it cost me about eight dollars.
 

MTboatguy

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When I first went into the Army we had thousands of rounds of steel we tried and the malfunctions were so bad the risk factor did not outweigh the costs, that stuff can get you killed, I won't buy it at all, the AR was not designed to use steel, plain and simple, it is never cheap if it can get you killed.
 

Boomyal

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I have a mount that goes right on the top of my handle that I can mount a scope on, I think it cost me about eight dollars.

Doesn't that put the scope pretty high up? You have a link for that mount? My handle/rear sight, as earlier mentioned is in route as we speak.
 

hrdwrkingacguy

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Here is the zombie appocolypse rifle...:eek:
 

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thumpar

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The height is the reason I am not a big fan of the handle with sight on top of it. With my EOtech it will co-witness with rail mounted rears sights.
 
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MTboatguy

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I shoot irons on both of my AR's, tried optics and didn't like them in either mounting position, so just stuck with the irons. I didn't shoot optics in the military although I had the option.
 
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gm280

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Boom, as for the "steel" Wolf brand of ammo, it does have a polymer coating, but the problem comes when the chamber gets really hot. And that happens very quickly in such rifles. In fact if you rattle off 20 rounds or more, the barrel will be so hot, you won't be able to touch it...believe that! I've had to literally wait until the rifle barrel cooled off a little to but them in their gun cases to come back home. And when the chamber does get hot, it starts melting that polymer coating and starts sticking and creates lockup issues. And because AR's are built to way tighter standards then AKs, it will create those type problems. So you can shoot whatever you want, but just be prepared for heat issues with cheap ammo, steel being the worst manufactured. And then IF you decide to reload, make certain you get brass cases with BOXER type primers, or you will have a lot of work ahead of you to try and reload the spent rounds. I do speak from lots of experience. JMHO!

As for mounting any type rear sight, the closer to the barrel center line the more accurate it will shoot at all distances. The higher the sight or scope is mounted from the barrel centerline the more angled the sight and bullet will be to each other. Example, if you mount a scope with the "See-through mounts" that were very popular back a few years, the only place the sight and bullet will be the same, is at the sight-in distance. Targets before that distance will have bullet impacts high, and likewise the further the distance from the sight-in it will be lower.

I do remember one opening morning hunt me and two other guys were on. As luck would have it, I climbed up in my 16' ladder-stand and as soon as I turned around and sat down, I see a 7 point buck at the base of the ladder. He must have smelled the doe scent I used on the trail into the stand. :noidea: So I had "See-through mounts" on my rifle and I aimed the cross-hairs at the heart area of the deer. This was nearly straight down, just a slight angle from 90 degrees, and so the scope was positioned at the heart, BUT the barrel centerline trajectory was a heck of a lot lower. I shot and the deer ran off. Of course the two other guys came as soon as they hear the report and we started looking for that deer. We looked for a few hours, finding blood at a few spots. And finely we found that buck. The bullet just hit very low and hit one lung. So because of the angle of the see-through mount/scope to the barrel centerline, I nearly miss that deer altogether. I true lesson learned about sight angles and barrel centerline. So lower mounts, be it open sights or scope mount is always better. The deviation is so much less that way. And no more See-through mounts ever again for me now. JMHO!
 

MTboatguy

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The communist block weapons were designed for steel ammo, the AR was not, it was designed for brass ammo, it may be less expensive, but in the long run can cost you a lot more. I am not trying to be harsh, but I have a very negative view on steel ammo, the extra you pay for brass will give you much more reliability in the AR platform.
 

thumpar

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Yep. You can take an AK and shake it and you will hear it rattle. They tolerance is not at much as an AR. If you look at the 7.62x39 compared to the 5.56x45 round you will see the angles on the round. The 7.62x39 tapers a lot more. That helps, plus the chamber is looser.
 

Boomyal

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I am hearing you all! Thanks for all the good input. Can't wait until my piece arrives. We have, in Camas WA, a new indoor shooting range that will handle up to 30-06.
 

thumpar

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That is nice. The indoor range here in Spokane will only allow pistol rounds.
 

gm280

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That is nice. The indoor range here in Spokane will only allow pistol rounds.

WOW, I can only imagine the noise inside with high power rifles being shot. AR's in the .223 cal really do make a very high pitch shockwave. :eek:
 

thumpar

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WOW, I can only imagine the noise inside with high power rifles being shot. AR's in the .223 cal really do make a very high pitch shockwave. :eek:
My buddy is a manufacturer and has a tank to test all the guns. He doesn't even use ear protection anymore. I think he is going deaf. I shot my AR once outdoor with no ear protection. 1 round was enough to make me stop. About a year ago I went out with some people that have never seen an AR. They asked me if it was loud. I told them it was and they commented that is was louder than they expected.
 
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gm280

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My buddy is a manufacturer and has a tank to test all the guns. He doesn't even use ear protection anymore. I think he is going deaf. I shot my AR once outdoor with no ear protection. 1 round was enough to make me stop. About a year ago I went out with some people that have never seen an AR. They asked me if it was loud. I told them it was and they commented that is was louder than they expected.

thumper, I literally ruined my ears hunting one day. And this was a few decades ago now. I was hunting with a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 mag and was on a clear cutover area. I had a buck come out about 100 yards away and I pulled the Blackhawk out and took the first shot. My ears when ringing. The second shot they went closed. And follow on shot didn't sound loud anymore. And that is because my ears were gone. I couldn't even hear the truck running when I got back to the truck. And the sides of my head were numb for two weeks. They finally opened up again, but with huge high frequency losses now. Sad story that had life lasting effects. So please everybody use ear protection if you want to save your hearing. It only takes one time. :sorry:

Oh I did take that deer, but looking back, it really wasn't worth the trade off in my opinion!
 

MTboatguy

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WOW, I can only imagine the noise inside with high power rifles being shot. AR's in the .223 cal really do make a very high pitch shockwave. :eek:

Wait until you find a range that allows, bump fire or full auto, all bets are OFF! You really need good quality noise canceling ear protection, a day in a full auto range will ensure you will be using hearing aids in the future!
 

Bob_VT

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Boom what kind of shooting will you be doing? at what distance? The rear sight options are endless but they are have specific uses.

I have a Rock River NM4 that is not a short set up and mine is not light since it has a national match heavy barrel. It is very capable at 600 meters with just iron sights but, that is what I was raised on. If you are going for just fast fun shooting at 100 yards or so I would get a red dot or a holograph sight.

Ammunition....... steel imported stuff is crap and I will not even use any of it in any of my .223/5.56 weapons (or in any of my pistols either). The lack of quality control is just scary and I strongly advise against it. There are companies selling re manufactured (reloaded) brass ammo which is more affordable in bulk. Once again ammo choice depends on the type of shooting you do. I reload my own and I am super meticulous on each step involved because I normally reload for pure accuracy at long distance.
 
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