'87 Force 125HP ignition problem

[The Force power]

No fire on any cylinder;
- disconnected rectifier
- disconnected ignition-switch
- checked all trigger-wires/connection = good
- checked ohm reading on stator = 745 (have not checked voltage-output while cranking)

Now here is where it gets interesting;
disconnected both kill-wires at stud (separate them from each other) #1 &#2 fire (NOT #3 & #4)
so I replace pack for #3 & #4 because of instructions from you know where. lol
"disconnect kill wire from one pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack"
Did I replace the wrong pack/ am I missing something?
I know a test good stator can be bad jerryjerry05 warned me a few years back and found out the hard way, hence me checking the voltage-output tomorrow ( I finally get to use my DVA adapter)

 

[Nordin]

This ignition system can be confusing but follow he troubleshooting chart and swap the CDI boxes etc.
Do output test with a DVA meter/adapter and you will find out the bad part.
It is good if you have known good working parts to put on.
I know it is expensive parts for the ignition system but that is the boating life and it does not matter what OB brand you have.

 

[jerryjerry05]

I'll say it again!!
A stator that tests good, can be bad
Actually I've said that a bunch of times.

 

[The Force power]

I'll say it again!!
A stator that tests good, can be bad
Actually I've said that a bunch of times.

Say it loud & proud jerry!
kidding aside.....when the voltage-test is good, can the stator still be bad?

 

[The Force power]

This ignition system can be confusing but follow he troubleshooting chart and swap the CDI boxes etc.
Do output test with a DVA meter/adapter and you will find out the bad part.
It is good if you have known good working parts to put on.
I know it is expensive parts for the ignition system but that is the boating life and it does not matter what OB brand you have.

Thanks Nordin, I built-up a collection of Force outboards & parts over the years. (like to buy them in bulk. lol)
I have another 125hp sitting here with a blown piston with a working ignition-system, the easiest way would be the swap the whole assembly over but I want to diagnose what component is faulty.

 

[Jiggz]

It's possible a separate winding from the stator is bad. To verify, with the kill wires disconnected from the terminal board inside the cowling, switch the blue and yellow wires (from the terminal board) and then check for sparks again. If the no spark switch to 1 & 2 (which previously have the sparks) and sparks only on 3 nd 4 then a separate winding on the stator is bad and the entire stator needs to be replaced. But before doing so, physically check the affected blu/yel wires at their connections to the stator, it could just be a broken sire.
Remember this is on an OEM Force stator. If your stator is a CDI then the blu/yel wire pairs are just in one and the same circuit or are just in parallel. If you have a CDI stator and you have sparks on 1 & 2 then the stator is good but the problem could just be broken wires at the stator connection.

Bottom line, check voltage output on both set or pair of blu/yel wires, it's a very definite check.

 

[The Force power]

It's possible a separate winding from the stator is bad. To verify, with the kill wires disconnected from the terminal board inside the cowling, switch the blue and yellow wires (from the terminal board) and then check for sparks again. If the no spark switch to 1 & 2 (which previously have the sparks) and sparks only on 3 nd 4 then a separate winding on the stator is bad and the entire stator needs to be replaced. But before doing so, physically check the affected blu/yel wires at their connections to the stator, it could just be a broken sire.
Remember this is on an OEM Force stator. If your stator is a CDI then the blu/yel wire pairs are just in one and the same circuit or are just in parallel. If you have a CDI stator and you have sparks on 1 & 2 then the stator is good but the problem could just be broken wires at the stator connection.

Bottom line, check voltage output on both set or pair of blu/yel wires, it's a very definite check.

Thank you Jiggz !!
The Stator is original '87
I had; No fire on any cylinder then I disconnected both kill-wires at stud (separate them from each other) #1 &#2 started firing but (NOT #3 & #4) so I replace pack for #3 & #4
Now nothing fires again.

I will check the voltage-output first before moving on.
IF?? the voltage-output is correct & (I know the ohm reading is) IS the Stator considered "good" ?

Also, the instructions say; "with everything connected" would this matter? or can I test with the blue & yellow wires disconnected?
Just making sure; test for voltage hooked to both yellow-wires & then the blue?

 

[Jiggz]

Testing the voltage is across each pair of the blue and yellow wires. Using a DVA with the VOM set to test for DC voltage. You can test connected or disconnected but disconnected (both pairs) is the preferred method just to make sure no other interference. Just make sure none of the wires is touching ground or each other. A small piece of electrical tape will suffice to isolate the other pair of wires while testing the other pair. 180V peak to peak is the minimum. Carefully watch the VOM or have it set on hold to make sure you have the highest reading. If reading is satisfactory, reconnect all blue and yellow wires. Then test for voltage again connected just to make sure nothing is interfering that is causing the no spark. Check the wiring diagram, note that a blue wire and a yellow wire feeds each CD box. Make sure yours is connected this way otherwise you will not get any spark. You might also want to test the trigger voltage while at it.

 

[The Force power]

You might also want to test the trigger voltage while at it.

Thank you & will check this also (have not done an OHM-reading on the trigger wires either)

 

[The Force power]

Update Stator & trigger check;
Stator - Ohm reading were good but not voltage-output on two leads
Trigger - Ohm & voltage readings are good thus a keeper

Well @jerryjerry05 once again, you were right; a "tested good" stator can be bad
@Jiggz one thing stays a mystery, how when I disconnected the kill wires from both packs #1 & #2 started firing and that I tested it with VDA attached I got no reading??

Luckily I have a spare motor that has the working stator

 

[Jiggz]

Well @jerryjerry05 once again, you were right; a "tested good" stator can be bad
@Jiggz one thing stays a mystery, how when I disconnected the kill wires from both packs #1 & #2 started firing and that I tested it with VDA attached I got no reading??

This is why I recommended taking stator voltage readings with both sets of wires (two pairs of blu/yel) disconnected from the terminal board. In this scenario you are strictly reading voltage purely from the stator. And then take another set of readings with all the pair of wires connected. If you get voltage readings while disconnected it tells you the stator is good. And if you reconnect and do not get any readings, then something else is causing the voltage reading to disappear. Either it is being shunt to ground because some other part is now grounded. Can you post the DVA readings you took. Just label them as pair #1 and pair #2. Even better post a pic of the VOM and its connection to the pair of wires with its voltage reading.

 

[The Force power]

This is why I recommended taking stator voltage readings with both sets of wires (two pairs of blu/yel) disconnected from the terminal board. In this scenario you are strictly reading voltage purely from the stator. And then take another set of readings with all the pair of wires connected. If you get voltage readings while disconnected it tells you the stator is good.

I only took the reading while it was disconnected (the way you say above)
Readings

Trigger voltage within spec​

Stator voltage zero on all

 

[The Force power]

I moved on and swapped the whole "tested good" assembly from the spare over to motor on the boat.
Got the motor to run but with the drop down test I noticed #4 is not firing, likely a broken wire during set over. we'll see :{

 

[Jiggz]

Was there any burn or overheating marks on the old stator that had zero output readings? Anyways, since you already moved on I guess you can use this as a training aid or even a spare if repaired.

 

[The Force power]

Was there any burn or overheating marks on the old stator that had zero output readings?

No visual defects found and/or excessive rust built-up

 

[The Force power]

Was there any burn or overheating marks on the old stator that had zero output readings? Anyways, since you already moved on I guess you can use this as a training aid or even a spare if repaired.

WIRE READ TO OEM OHMS
Brown/Blue (or Blue) to Brown/Yellow (or Yellow) = 680-900 OHMS
is wire below the other brown/blue (or blue wire) or referenced to both?
Brown/Blue (or Blue) to Engine GND = Open
Brown/Yellow (or Yellow) to Engine GND = Open

 

[Nordin]

The Force power maybe I misunderstand you but the stator windings should read infinity to ground.
They should have no connection to ground.
Brown/black/yellow (or yellow) and brown/black/blue(or (blue) feeding pack for #3 and #4 cylinder 680-900 Ohms, infinity to ground.
The same for the other stator winding feeding the other CDI pack for #1 and #2. Brown/yellow (or yellow) and brown/blue (or blue) 680-900 Ohms, infinity to ground.
Remember these circuits are charging the capacitors in the CDI packs, they should not have connections to ground.
This is for measuring Ohms (resistance), if you measure voltage with a DVA adapter you should read 180V+ to ground with connected stator wires.
This is because there are a voltage potential differences between the stator and ground when the packs are connected.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Say it loud & proud jerry!
kidding aside.....when the voltage-test is good, can the stator still be bad?

Yes.

 

[The Force power]

They should have no connection to ground.
Brown/black/yellow (or yellow) and brown/black/blue(or (blue) feeding pack for #3 and #4 cylinder 680-900 Ohms, infinity to ground.
The same for the other stator winding feeding the other CDI pack for #1 and #2. Brown/yellow (or yellow) and brown/blue (or blue) 680-900 Ohms

Thanks Nordin for confirming
Sometimes I read things too many times & overthink.
Why is the OHM-reading for the charging-side not mentioned anywhere?

 

[The Force power]

Yes.

Can this be caused by the Stator getting warm/hot resulting in poor flow of current?