86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

[realboats]

Hi. Having a problem with my '86 Johnson 110hp when starting cold. I go through the typical start procedure (squeeze primer bulb, ignition on, press key and primer solenoid clicks, let prime for about 5 seconds, release solenoid, attempt to start engine) and a 100 variations of that procedure when things don't go well.<br /><br />What's happening is that the engine will fire right off as soon as I turn the key, then it just cranks and cranks no matter what I do. If I play with it long enough, it will eventually start, but I gave up today because this can't be good for the starter or engine. The engine starts great once it's been warmed up.<br /><br />Have spark, primer bulb is new OMC, tried to start with premix spray but it doesn't seem to help.<br /><br />First off, my understanding is that I can disconnect the big red plug to the control box to rule out any control wiring problems and jump start the engine via the starter solenoid. Is this correct?<br /><br />Also, how can I check to see if the primer lines are not plugged when the engine is not running? The manual only describes testing for a clogged line in the primer system when the engine is running. The solenoid itself opens and closes as it should.<br /><br />Oh, one other thing. Where can I get various sizes of clear tubing to test my fuel system with? Is there clear tubing available that can be attached and left on permanently?<br /><br />I will be doing some more troubleshooting, but if anyone has any idea what could be causing the problem, please feel free to to contribute any ideas you may have.<br /><br />Many Thanks!

 

[OBJ]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Couple things to look at realboats.<br /><br />Got a good service manual? If so, run through the sync and link. Also make sure the spark is advancing and the throttle plates crack open when you raise the cold start lever.<br /><br />You can check the primer hoses to the carbs by pulling them off the carb nipples and crank the engine while holding in the key. If the gas spurts out, the primer system should be OK. Or, turn the red lever on the primer counter clockwise<br />as far as it will go and try and start the engine. <br /><br />You don't want to leave clear plastic hose on the engine. It'll dry out and go bad real quick. OK to test with though. You can find the hose at any NAPA dealer.<br /><br />If the engine runs OK once you get it running, I kind of think your problem is either in the sync and link and/or the throttle plates are not cracked open when the cold lever is raised.<br /><br />What you can try real quick, manually open the throttle plates and squirt some premix into the carb throats. Then try and start. <br /><br />Just outta curiosity, when was the last carb overhaul on yer engine? Might be time for one.<br /><br />Keep us posted.....thanks.

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Thanks OBJ. I do have an OMC manual. The only one I was able to find for 1986 covered various other models, but it is a genuine OMC manual and covers things much better than those "other" service manuals. <br /><br />About the clear hoses, I was wondering if there were any aftermarket clear marine fuel lines for permanent use. I suppose they would darken up and become useless for seeing into after a while. And thanks for the tip on Napa. The hoses from them will be used for troubleshooting only. <br /><br />I haven't tried the cold start lever as you described. Will do that tomorrow when I go to the marina. One thing that's interesting though, is after fussing with the engine for a while, if I raise the cold start lever she starts right up as if someone threw a switch. You may be on to something here. <br /><br />Bought the motor last fall so don't know when the carbs were last rebuilt. I've already got plans to rebuild them and do a whole bunch of other stuff on the engine over the winter.<br /><br />Well, thanks again, OBJ. Off to study the manual and will report tomorrow night what I find.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

 

[arboatdr]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Just one more thing to add. You asked if you could unplug the red harness and jump the solenoid to start it. You can, BUT, if you do make sure you have water to the engine and can easily shut it down. Also make sure it is in nuetral. If you have good spark while cranking there is probably no need to jump start it.

 

[OBJ]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Good addition AR.....

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Thanks AR. I was asking about the harness mainly because I had read it in another post and was absolutely amazed that could be done! It makes sense now that I've looked over the wiring diagram. <br /><br />If I were to do something like that, it would only be to rule out possible problems with the control box. And I would certainly have a kill switch in place before trying something like that. <br /><br />Regarding the primer lines to the carb nipples, it's easy enough to test the lines themselves, but how about the pathway in the carbs? If I try to blow through them with a piece of hose, will air pass or will they feel blocked?<br /><br />Dhadley, your post doesn't seem to contain anything. I've read your posts and have a lot of respect for your views. Please repost if something went wrong posting the last time.

 

[Walker]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

If I were to do something like that, it would only be to rule out possible problems with the control box. And I would certainly have a kill switch in place before trying something like that.

realboats, you can usually choke the motor to kill it or simply plug the red plug back in with the key off.

 

[sycamore]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

I've had the same problem with my 1988 88SPL. It does not like to be primed or choked. I basically trim the motor down and crank for about 10 seconds and it starts. If I prime the bulb or solenoid, it seems to flood and takes a little bit to clear out. This is only when cold, when warm it starts immediately.

 

[sycamore]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Also want to add that I get the bang or backfire when it is choked also.

 

[fast_c_class]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

is it possible you swapped a couple of the plug wires? i did this once and yes it would start but would run very rough something like what you said

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Just an update. As suggested, I did a complete link and sync as per the instructions in the manual. Since I can't get the motor running at this point, the spark advance had to be adjusted at crank speed with the 4 degree difference. Everything went exactly by the book. <br /><br />Still no start. <br /><br />Then I used a spark gap tester and started at the beginning again. It may have been my imagination, but it seemed the spark would run consistantly for a few seconds, then stop or run erractically. Not sure if perhaps I had a bad ground on the tester or what. <br /><br />This 1986 has 2 power packs, so I checked the part numbers on them. One was #583110 (new# 113-3110) and that checks out ok. The other power pack, the one controlling cylinder #1 had a part number of 582125 (113-2125) which is for some pre-1986 v4's. Definitely not for anything after 1985.<br /><br />Guess it goes without saying this will have to be replaced. Any chance this could be causing problems, or is this power pack compatible with #583110?<br /><br />So, next task is to replace the power pack and plugs. I should have done the plugs already, but today was the first chance I was able to get to the boat in a week.<br /><br />Also, I noticed in the manual the specs for the 90hp and 110hp are identical, even the cylinder sizes and pistons?!?! Where does the extra 20hp come from and are the parts interchangeable from one to the other?<br /><br />Many Thanks!

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

I kind of ramble on with the questions. Let me just ask if the 90hp and the 110hp use the same powerhead? Thanks.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

realboats,<br />sometimes we have to get back to basics,and something is missing here.You say you prime the engine,then crank it?Holding in the key only opens the valve you hear click.<br /><br />Nothing else happens until you crank the engine with the key in,holding this valve open.NOW extra fuel is injected into the engine for cold starts.<br /><br />It is a primer,but engine must revolve for it to function.<br /><br />DHP

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

I've actually tried cranking the engine while holding in the key, but it doesn't help. I've read quite a few posts here where people hold in the key for 5 or 8 seconds to activate the primer solenoid before engaging the starter. Is this some kind of misconception?<br /><br />Nevertheless, the engine won't start even when spraying premix into the carbs. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe this rules out problems with the priming system.

 

[fireman57]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Sure sounds like a powerpack gone postal. Have you changed them yet?

 

[OBJ]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

OK...lets' talk spark. Each spark to each cylinder should jump 1/2" gap with a strong hot blue white spark. If your not getting this on any cylinder, you should find out why. The service manual will guide you in the trouble shooting.<br /><br />On cold starts, all you really have to do is prime the bulb, raise the cold start lever, turn the key to "ON", push in and go to start. When the engine fires, release the key.<br /><br />The correct pack for your engine is the 583110 unless its a "TLCDF" Model. Then the PN number would be 582811. (my 90hp is an 86')<br /><br />Keep us posted realboats....

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Thanks again OBJ! I don't have an operator's manual for this motor, so I don't have the "official" starting procedure. Yours makes sense and concurs with DHP, so I assume priming the bulb, raise cold start lever (full or just a little?) and crank while pressing in on key is the factory recommended procedure? There seems to be a lot of variations on starting from other folks. <br /><br />Going to the marina today so I'll try testing the spark gap again. I'll bring an umbrella along this time so I can see the spark better. It seemed last time the spark was yellowish and erratic at 7/16" gap setting. Will change the powerpack and retest at 1/2 inch. I'll post the results here.<br /><br />Since you have the 90hp, your service manual is probably the same as the 110hp. Do you have any idea what the difference is between these two models? My manual shows the specs are exactly the same. If I pick up a 90hp powerhead or complete unit as a spare or for parts, will the parts be interchangeable?<br /><br />Thanks very much for your help!

 

[fireman57]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

No need to change them yet. If you have a weak yellowish spark swap the coil wires to the other plugs and see if the trouble follows. If those spark good and blue then it is not the powerpack. I was just throwing out the spark suggestion because it seems that you have done almost everything else. I have had problems with a weak powerpack that make the engine problem seem fuel related.

 

[realboats]

Re: 86 Johnson 110hp - Cold Start = BANG Then Nothing!

Just an update. Finally got a chance to work on the engine a few days ago. Replaced the non-583110 power pack with the correct #583110. This was on the starboard bank. Checked spark and woohoo! Nice bluish spark snapping away across a 1/2" gap. <br /><br />Then I figured I'd check the port bank for spark. I don't remember having done this before because of all the problems with the starboard bank. Oh no! Weak, yellow spark barely jumps 1/8"! I started going through the troubleshooting portion of the manual and found the sensor coil failed all resistance, ground and voltage tests. It was getting dark at that point so I had to quit. Wouldn't a bad sensor coil effect all four cylinders? The manual is not at all clear about this. I only tested the connector on the port bank, but the starboard bank also has a connector. I really wanted to test that one, too, but didn't have time. <br /><br />By the way, I'm thinking of buying two new power packs for next season and keeping the good one as an emergency spare. I realize there are a variety of aftermarket ones available, one as low as $60. Any recommendations on where to buy the power packs? If you prefer, you can send email to DenisNH@yahoo.com<br /><br />Thanks!