4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

[Doug Roy]

I've got a "large" 22' mid-cabin cruiser on a trailer that weighs $1,400 lbs. I don't know the boat weight yet, but figure it's at least 5,000 lbs. making the total package around 7,000 lbs. New boat for me. First time up the ramp recently as soon as my friend's F150 rear tires hit the wet asphalt at the top of the ramp the rear tires broke lose big time. No posi-track in the rear but it did have 4-WD. With that engaged no problem. Tongue weight on the trailer seems about right. So now I'm shopping for my own vehicle to tow with. What are peoples experiences getting bigger boats up wet ramps? Is 4WD worth the extra investment?

Also, I'd love to tow with a more economical truck like a Toyota Tundra or the Nissan equivalent, but I'm thinking this boat's probably too big and I should shop in the 3/4 ton and up range. Thoughts?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

 

[joebob14]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I have a pontoon that combined with the trailor is right at 6800lbs. It pulls great with my gmc 1500, Chevy or gmc also offers the auto locking rearend. If you dont have any use for a 4x4 other than pulling the boat up the ramp I would definitley recomend a 4x2 with a locker as the 4x4 uses lower gears and will use alot more fuel and a much higher maintenence cost. Also keep in mind a 4x4 without lockers still only pulls with two wheals, one front and one rear, and if it breaks and you tell the dealer you had it in 4x4 on asphalt the warrenty wont cover it, 4x4 is not meant for hard surfaces. A 4x2 with a locker will give just as much traction as the 4x4 with a considerable difference in all around cost.

 

[hidef]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

Don't kid yourself about the Nissan Titan and Tundra getting better fuel economy than the Ford, Dodge and GM twins. If you run a V8 they are going to eat gas haul a boat and they are going to eat more. I get 18 MPG with a 2000 1500 Sierra 4 wheel drive. I have never had any issues with the 4WD parts in my truck and I also have the locking rear end. I have never found a ramp I couldn't pull a boat out of. A 1500 with the proper tow package can easily pull that boat.

However if you looking at a 3/4 ton the gas mileage is going to be around 14 MPG but the truck is heavier and they are built to haul a load. Plus you can go to a diesel which will still give you better fuel economy and higher towing capacity.

 

[Bamaman1]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I have an 03 Ford F250 Superduty crewcab 2wd diesel that's setup for towing a RV or boat--up to 12,000 lbs. I'm now running a +80 horsepower economy diesel tune, and recently got 20 (manually figured) on a 600 mile interstate/mountain trip. Gas trucks with half the torque I have won't come close to my fuel mileage.

I think the new Ford diesel is about $7800 more vs. $5000 for 4x4 option. The diesel will payoff in pulling ability, long engine life, great resale prices and increased demand on the used market.

Needing a 4x4 depends on the quality of your boat ramps, including the steepness and quality of the pavement/concrete under water.

When I got my diesel, 4wd was approx. $5K. I figured I could pay for almost 100 wrecker calls to break even. The 2wd truck also has much less to go wrong, including no front drive shafts, CV joints, electric knock off hubs, needle valves, transfer cases, 2x the drive shafts, etc.

My 9 year old Powerstroke diesel has 95K miles, and it's probably worth $18K. It still has a life span that's twice as long as a new $45K gas F150 SuperCrew 4x4. Now, that's value for the long run.

Pickup trucks and full size vans are simply the way to go if you choose the boating lifestyle. I would choose a used diesel 2wd over a gasoline 4wd.

 

[444]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I agree a diesel is the ticket. But a diesel 4x4 costs a lot more than a gas 2wd. I don't care that much for 2wd's in general because I've gotten 2wd trucks stuck enough times to have gotten the message and went with a 4x4. The 2wd diesels can be had for a decent price, but then you're still stuck with a 2wd. Okay if you never leave the asphalt with it.

A 4x2 with a locker will give just as much traction as the 4x4 with a considerable difference in all around cost.

Except for the fact that when you're at the ramp with a 2wd, even with a locker, both your rear tires are partially under water or at least sitting on the wet part of the ramp vs your front tires up there where it's dry. I've never slipped tires at the ramp with a 2wd but then I've never had a really heavy boat either.

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I don't know about your area, but around here the ramps can be slick as snot with algae and weeds. I launched in Monterey Bay this week at low tide and would have been in real trouble without 4WD, as soon as I touched the throttle the back end would break loose and the truck and trailer would slide farther down the ramp, with 4WD engaged I pulled right up with no problem. My truck is an 01 and about the only time I have ever used 4WD is at the launch ramp but it is worth its weight in gold when you need it. I don't know if posi-traction would make a difference but like 444 said, it is nice to have the front tires higher up the ramp where there is less weed growth.

 

[superbenk]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

My Nissan Titan is rated to 9400 lbs for towing. I get 12-13 mpg around town & 10-12 mpg towing my 3500 lb boat/trailer. I've recently stopped using 4wd at the ramp & found it's worked fine in 2wd, but they are pretty decent ramps at state park lakes. I hold the brake with my left foot and ease the accelerator with my right until I feel the truck pushing uphill. Then just ease off the brake while staying on the accelerator and it climbs nice & smooth.

That said, having 4wd is nice when the ramp gets crusty. We pulled out of the river this year after some heavy rains & the ramp was covered in mud & branches - the 4wd allowed us to handle it with no problems at all. As stated above, it's not 100% necessary, but very nice to have when you want it. On the Titan, it does knock down the fuel economy 1-2mpg to have the 4wd & having the tow package/gears drops fuel economy by about 4-5 mpg. So, a 2wd non-tow package (7400 lb rating) Titan gets about 18-20 mpg vs my 13-15 on the highway.

 

[JB]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I have been driving AWD vehicles (Mercedes MLs and Subarus) so long that I have come to be suspicious of any 2WD.

Get an AWD or 4WD Tundra or Titan with appropriate tow rating.

 

[rbh]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

Once you get above 6000 pounds of towing, I would go no less than 3/4 ton.
Remember it is not that a lighter truck could'nt pull it, its that coming to an abrupt stop were the bigger brakes come in handy (even if the trailer has brakes)

As for 2wd or 4wd, go 4x4, limited slip rear, Check out if the clutch packs are worn out and replace if required.

(remember the side walls on the tires, the more plys the less dancing they do)

 

[jkust]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

A couple thoughts in general. I am actually suprised a single truck without 4wd has ever been sold... ever. They are work vehicles that though you many not need it now, you likely will in the future of your ownership experience. As for the differentials, the GM's use an Eaton Locking rear differential known as the G80 rpo code. The only way to quickly see if a GM has it is to look at the RPO code sticker in the glove box. Not sure if that is the case for all GM trucks but it is for mine. That is not a limited slip but a step up to a full locker. Take a look at youtube for some fun to watch videos comparing limited slip and locking rear differentials on different brand trucks while towing boats. Now then some of the foreign brands have gone to an electronic version of what used to be a mechanical process (again see the videos). The Locking Differential is actually an inexpensive option when you buy new but cost prohibitive practically speaking to add on later. My feeling is that if you are going to be a trailer boat owner visiting multiple unfamiliar lakes not just a 3 or 4 time a year tower, you will need either a full sized suv/truck (especially for your size of boat midsized for smaller boats) and you will want it to have 4wd, some sort of locker, and the appropriate gearing. A 4wd with no locker will drive 2 not all 4 wheels. As for brands, I am a conservative vehicle buyer meaning I won't overpay for the needed functionality but must have all available options on whatever I buy. In other words, I have generally taken the stance that If a person is going to buy a foreign car, buy it new where pricing is similar to American because the used ones do not depreciate down to the level I find acceptable. The American used vehicles then are great because they depreciate down so quickly but yet have been reliable and trouble free for us. As soon as foreign vehicles depreciation increases, I will be seeking those out as well.

 

[mikeneal]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I tow a 4500# boat with a 4WD Nissan Titan and only needed 4WD a couple times but when you need it, you really need it. My tow vehicle will always be a 4WD.

 

[sw33ttooth]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

i'd like to see your friends f 150, i have a 95 f 150 with the 302 and rear wheel drive no posi's. i also have a 23 foot cuddy cabin with a full tank weighs 6,200 on trailer. i have never broke loose pulling up ramps.

if your looking new the 2010 f150 i know had a towing rating at about 10,000. they claim to get 25+ mpg so its not a guzzler. but it all comes down to how your foot drives not what the manufacture states.

as to 4x4 its worthless if your already spinning tires, you need sometthing that has a locking diff.

i thought i seen a comment about why would they manufacture a pick-up without 4 wheel drive. simply there is almost never a use for 4x4 i can go mudding with my truck, i can pull my boat out with out spinning tires, and i can go threw the snow with out a problem. 4 wheel drive also cost more money replaceing u-joints and all that crap every couple years.

eventually you will just buy the truck you see for sale, just remember this is my .02. mine and mine alone if you dont wish to use it then dont complain about it.

 

[89mercruiser]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

With 7000lbs total I would go with a 3/4 ton at least. Most factory hitches on the half tons are only rated to 5000 gross with weight distribution. My truck has a towing capacity of 7500lbs but the hitch can only handle 5000 before weight distribution is needed.

With that much weight behinde a half ton if you are at the over weight limit. If you get in an accident and determine you are over weight for the truck, big lawsuit and a mess of other problems.

I have 4x4 and the only time i use it mostly is the winter but hardly at the ramp unless it's a little steeper and need the extra low gearing of 4lo.

 

[rbh]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

One point no has made in this thread is backing down a ramp in 4low is "GOOD", you have better control as your feet are not on the brakes (as much).

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

In 2008 gas went over $4 per gallon and no one could sell a truck. The dealer nearly gave me a new 4 door Big Horn with a Hemi. Well loaded incl towing package and limited slip. 2WD and the STEEP ramp has been no problem. Now 37 months old and only replaced tires and front brakes with 80,000 +++ miles. Getting better milage than most with smaller engines and smaller trucks.

 

[nikon]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I've always thought of it like this.

4wd is like a condom, better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

That being said, my tahoe had 4wd...didn't use it much, never needed it at the ramp. But after a hurricane passed through and a tree (and roots still in the ground) was laying on our driveway 4low did a great job getting it out of the way spinning all four wheels

Trucks should have 4wd, period.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

Four wheel drive is always worth the money.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

Have to disagree on the 4WD. It's really a personal preference option. I haven't ever owned a 4WD vehicle, but I also haven't ever needed one. I don't go running through mud/sand deeper than my sidewalls, and I haven't ever had a problem pulling 4-5k lbs up a slippery boat ramp. Nothing that putting the tranny in 2nd gear didn't solve as far as wheel spin. I get extra payload/towing capacity, fewer parts to wear out or fail, and slightly better fuel mileage without 4WD. That being said, 4WD can come in handy if you want to push the limits or put your truck in exteme situations (like launching a boat off of a beach/non-paved ramp location. Truth is, most truck owners have no need for 4WD as the truck rarely leaves the pavement.

 

[jkust]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

i thought i seen a comment about why would they manufacture a pick-up without 4 wheel drive. simply there is almost never a use for 4x4 i can go mudding with my truck, i can pull my boat out with out spinning tires, and i can go threw the snow with out a problem. 4 wheel drive also cost more money replaceing u-joints and all that crap every couple years.
.

Yep, that was my comment and you made my point for me. There is "almost never a use" for it in general but the 1% of the time you need it you would do anything to have included it. Also you mention going through the snow, but towing some snowmobiles through the snow, up a hill will change your mind as well when getting stuck means potentially freezing to death.
I look at it like this; If I'm buying a truck and I have the 35,000 dollars in the bank for the purchase, I won't miss a few extra dollars that the 4wd would have cost even if I use it only a dozen times over the years. Also one of the things I like about the GM 4wd systems and maybe others I don't know is that they have a 4AWD switch that gives you on demand AWD when you aren't locking in. You may not use your true 4wd but you will use your 4AWD many times a day in the winter. Now add on standard stabilitrac and the now standard traction control and your only issue in the winter is overconfidence.

 

[jeffnick]

Re: 4 vs. 2 WD and Tow Vehicle Recommendations

I've pulled my boat over 50,000 miles (including the entire Alaska Hwy in both directions) and used over 100 different boat ramps...all with a 2WD gasser. If you want a 4x4 or a diesel by all means get one - personally I have no use for either.