1984 johnson 75 hp no crank

[JoshKeller84]

j75ecrd

j5949958

rebuilt the engine, and starting breaking it in and the compression evened out pretty well. I left for 4 days for a bear hunting trip, and came back and am having a no crank condition.

wire directly from battery to starter works fine.

getting 12.7v to the hot wire on the solenoid.

get 12.7v to the yellow wire on the solenoid when key is put into crank position.

no power to the out wire on the solenoid.

primer choke does work, so im getting power.

tried two wiring harness/key switches to eliminate bad ignition switch/neutral safety switch

tried three solenoids (one brand new) to eliminate bad solenoid. The other solenoids work on my other motor.

any suggestions on what to try next?

 

[boobie]

Try grounding the output wire from the solenoid once and see what happens. That would be from the small terminal.

 

[Vic.S]

How are you measuring those voltages? with a digital meter.? Digital meters take so little current that that can often make a fool of you by giving a normal reading even through a bad connection. Dont ask how I know this!
Check again with a 12 volt bulb on a couple of wires. I suspect you will fine the bulb wont light on the hot wire to the solenoid.

Check ,clean, remake connections.

See also the topic "Outboard wont start" on the Engine FAQs board

 

[JoshKeller84]

so basically run a jumper from the ground to a known clean ground?

 

[boobie]

Yes.The small terminal opposite the one with the yellow wire.

 

[JoshKeller84]

ran a jumper from the ground to the grounding stud on the powerhead with no change. also, i just ran a jumper from the yellow wire to the starter wire stud on solenoid and it turned over when the key was in the crank position. it does this with all 3 solenoids. are they all bad including the brand new one or am i missing something?

 

[racerone]

Yes you are missing something.----Replace the wee wire from the solenoid to the block.

 

[Crosbyman]

Selenoids are very simple devices. They work like any other electro-magnets (electric door locks or openners of fire doors, large magnets in the scrapyard etc...

you must have current flowing inside it's wire coil to magnetize thus closing it's main internal contact to feed +12v to the starter motor

It should produce a click noise when energized and that can only happen with one side grounded and one side getting GOOD battery +12 from the START position on the key.

Battery +12v may not be looping back to the selenoid from the START key position for a multitude of reasons ( bad key contacts - no battery feed to the key START position and finally no Battery +12v reaching the selenoid.

Fisrts things first .... jumper a good solid source of +12 to the selenoid if it works you know your problem is back towards to start key.

A bad contact in the start position of the key may very well show up as 12 volts at the selenoid yet the high resistance within the key contact will not allow sufficient current to flow to the selenoid to energize it (close the relay contact feeding +12 battery to the starter. The good side to this is that if you do read 12 volts on the selenoid input you know your wiring is probably ok but..... any connection point with a high resistance may look like a bad key. you just need to eliminate each section

- Battery source to key +12 post
- Key START post to selenoid

 

[JoshKeller84]

here is where i'm at. 3 different solenoids, two key switches/wiring harnesses. ive jumped every possible connection and still get nothing to the starter, however i can jump from yellow wire to starter cable and get a connection with the key on. positive input to positive output jumping also produces cranking. I also ran a jumper off the yellow wire at the keyswitch directly to the solenoid yellow connection with no change.

 

[racerone]

Have you checked the fuse ??--------Replaced the wee black wire on the solenoid?-----------Have you looked at the " crank in nuetral only " switch in the control box ?----And why is the big wire on the bottom of the solenoid coloured black ????

 

[JoshKeller84]

Checked the fuse and replaced with a blade fuse holder - getting power and my electric choke solenoid works. yes i replaced the wire with a jumper to several different points. ive tried two different key switches/harnesses, one of which didnt have the control box installed, and the neutral safety switch was bypassed on my control box (jet motor). big wire on bottom is black because its a newer cable than the stock battery cable.

 

[tblshur]

josh looks like the two solenoid small wires need to be switched hope this helps.:joyous:

 

[tblshur]

josh the two small solenoid wires need to be switched, yellow and black hope this helps.:joyous:

 

[Crosbyman]

no offence but you must be systematic in your trouble shooting ... no need to introduce new variables to confuse things

Can you get the selenoid to operate the starter by applying a GOOD 12v source on the selenoid control lead ( small post where the key start wire attaches)

if no = bad selenoid confirm by reading an open condition with an ohmmeter . Read from the ground and control pins and you will see an open condition.
This has nothing to do with the fat 12V cables from the battery and the one going to the starter)

if yes= selenoid obviously NOT getting a GOOD 12 volts+ from the START post of the key
work backwards to locate why the key START psot is not putting out a GOOD 12v+ when the key is turned to START
The key's START post will not put out 12V+ if it does not have any coming from the battery. Bypassing the neutral switch will not help any IF the neutral
switch itself is not getting 12v+ from the battery


Bottom line... work back to a known GOOD source of +12 voltage when you get 12v+ from the key's START post your selenoid will pull it's contact and feed the starter.

note: make sure all connections are clean ( non resistive anywhere). ground wires( mostly black) are just as important as +12v . do not introduce old possibly defective parts in your hunt for missing voltage to the selenoid. Remeber ohms law... high voltages are at the highest resistive points. This will tell you you have voltage but it also means little current can flow it is like measuring water pressure at the end of a straw, it looks good but it is nothing to fill a pool with !

 

[JoshKeller84]

using my jumper wire (4 gauge car amp power wire) directly from my battery to the solenoid control post (yellow wire), produces nothing. With the key on, jumping the yellow wire to the starter cable results int he starter spinning. so I'm guessing bad solenoid?

 

[Vic.S]

so I'm guessing bad solenoid?

The results of everything you have tried suggest a bad solenoid.... but a bit of a puzzle if you have tried two others, unless they are bad as well.

You could check the continuity of the solenoid coil,
You could listen for a click from the solenoid when the key is turned to the start position.

If the coil is open circuit it's dead.

If the coil is Ok you should hear the click. If you do and still it is not cranking then the main contacts may be burnt up.

If the coil is good and you don't hear a click then look again at the ground connection.

Finally try a known good solenoid

I don't understand the reason for tbishur's suggestion to switch the two small wires.

 

[Crosbyman]

by jumpering a fresh 12v to the selenoid control post produces nothing .... not a good sign


you indicate that the simultaneous application of the jumper wire AND activating the START key makes the selenoid work . GREAT NEWS that means the selenoid is OK....somewhat


the fact that the key must be in start with a jumpered 12v means the key is introducing a variable which supplements the 12 v jumpered on the coil.

Since the jumper wire supplies a fresh 12 volts on the selenoid it means that “the variable” is what causes current to flow internally to the opposite side of the selenoid's coil hence causing a magnetic field to close the contact for the starter.


that variable is a negative reference (ground) OR some “ lower” voltage potential value on the opposing side of the coil which allows current flow in the coil.

suggestion:

Physically remove the selenoid from the engine. Wire or ground the NEGATIVE side of the selenoid to the NEGATIVE post of your battery. With a piece of wire on the battery + 12 Volts post and momentarily touch the control post of the selenoid. You should feel it click
Reinstall the selenoid on the motor.

Aside from frame ground Do not attach any wires ( yellow from key) Fat red from Battery etc... Fat red to starter

Run a fresh jumper from the Batt- to the ground side of the selenoid . Momentarily touch +12 on the control post . The selenoid should click (operate) as it did of the engine
Reattach the Key start control wire to the control post of the selenoid ... leave that extra ground connected on the negative side of the selenoid
Turn the key to start .... the selenoid should click (operate) if that START +12 volts is good.

REMOVE the selenoid’s EXTRA ground wire from the battery’s negative

Turn the key to start .... the selenoid should click (operate) if that 12 volts is good if not the negative reference which the coils employs is not good. There is a discontinuity between the engines common frame ground and the selenoid. Either you find where and why OR you install a fresh ground wire from the Bat- connection on the engine over to the selenoid’s negative post / frame. Turning the key to START should now produce a click

Reinstall fat red wires from the battery and reconnect the fat red to the starter
Turning the key to start should turn the engine over .

From miles away... it is all I can suggest
(BTW did you test your start key post with a grounded bulb .. does the bulb turn on ?? You also use a automotive pick/lamp to do this test) I have read that marine and automotive selenoids are internally wired differently. MAKE CERTAIN you are using the appropriate selenoid for your engine .)

 

[qboatingnovice]

I am new to iboats and I'm trying to figure out how to start a new topic...Don't see a " + new topic" button.

 

[Vic.S]

I am new to iboats and I'm trying to figure out how to start a new topic...Don't see a " + new topic" button.

At the top of the board index ( http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engine-repair-and-maintenance/johnson-evinrude-outboards )

 

[JoshKeller84]

second new solenoid solved the problem

man do i have terrible luck with buying new parts - i got a starter for my truck that was DOA also...i now check new parts before installing