1965 3.9hp plug fouls

Teseal

Seaman
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Aug 2, 2018
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This little 3.9 hasn't been run in probably 25 years. I did some maintenance on it and tried to bring it back to life. My surprise it popped off about the second pull but didn't run more than 10 seconds and died. I should have replaced the gas line tank/motor that I think created the black sediment I found in the carb. I cleaned everything up again, replaced the line and tried again but it would not start. I did install a new plug, parts list called for a center fire plug it had an J electrode plug. I don't remember if the plug looked bad enough to be considered fouled or not and now it's mixed with all the other old plugs so I can't tell which it was or even if it was the right J style for the motor. Anyway after replacing it fire right up but only ran maybe 10 seconds and died again. Eventually found the new plug fouled. Checked the spark and could get it to jump 1/4" by spinning the flywheel by hand. Again remixed new gas to make sure it had the correct oil mix. It kept starting right away but would die after running less than a minute with the plug fouled. Started to lean it out but eventually got to the point where it would not start. Always the same, plug fouled after 10-20 seconds. Cleaned the plug and it fired right back up.

All the literature and the previous owner say the fuel mix 50:1 but it is making me wonder if there were any exceptions? I know I had an older Merc, 150 that I thought was 100:1. What else should I be checking?
 

racerone

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Use 50:1 on that motor.----No exceptions to that.----Repair / clean the fuel pump.
 

racerone

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If the diaphragm is ruptured it will provide fuel ( too much ) directly to the crankcase.----So simple.
 

Teseal

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Replaced the diaphragm and gasket. Didn't find any ruptures or pin holes even in front of the light. Recalled I had the carb set what I thought was way to lean, actually it was a turn and a qtr. Started 2nd pull with choke, smoking like crazy, let it run longer than it had in the past when it shut down with the fouled plug, then I shut it down to adjust the carb a bit leaner. 1 turn out started OK, no change in the smoke. Shut it down and adj again, 3/4 turn. Started first pull let it run to warm up, still smoking but less. Would idle now slow enough you could probably count the rpm. Anyway, fast idle for about 1 min then started to miss, tried to rev it a bit and it stopped. Plug was again fouled. Is it time to recheck the carb, replace the plug? The original maintenance included a new needle valve, screen, gaskets but not float. The carb was apart twice, once before starting and once when the fuel system was contaminated with what appeared to be from the fuel line.

It did run 10x longer this test than anytime in the past so it seems the pump was somehow effecting things. After the 2-3 minutes of run time the water in the barrel has alot of oil, guess that's no surprise. I'll look at the carb again unless there is another suggestion.
 

Teseal

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Tillotson carb needle base to upper level spec was off a bit .060" rather than spec @ .040". Thought this maybe enough to enrich the fuel so didn't go any further after making float measurement and tried again. Started OK whole lot less smoke, maybe ok, still sputtering. Shut it down to adjust just less than 3/4 turn, some 'popping' while its running. Running better, idled ok, shifted into both gears at low idle ok. Playing with the throttle up and down and it started to miss again, it stopped and wouldn't start. Plug fouled again. This center fire plug seems to get a carbon bridge built up across the dielectric and seems to always be in the same place. Pretty sure if I cleaned it up and reinstalled the motor would run again for 4-5 minutes.

At a loss what to look for, thought about replacing the plug with the equivalent "J" style.
 

airshot

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Have you run a compression test ? I would stay with factory recommended parts, in my 60 years of boating, they always worked the best.
 

racerone

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Have breaker points been cleaned and adjusted ?---Condenser replaced ?----Does spark jump a gap of at least 1/4" , yes or no ?
 

Teseal

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I have not checked the compression. Not sure how I would do that because the rope starter is in the cover, no access for the tester thro the cover. Guess I could see about putting/enlarging a hole through the bottom casting for the gage line.

About 2 minutes at a fast and slow idle, in gear and out, with the mixture needle at 1/2 turn.
 

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racerone

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Remove bypass cover on intake side of the block.----Have a look at piston / rings.
 

Teseal

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As my Dad use to say, "where there's a will there's a way". I could run the compression hose thro the air intake after removing the screen and filter. So after 4 or 5 quick pulls of the starter rope we were up to 98psi. Thinking that's enough to keep this thing out of trouble.
 

Teseal

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Sorry didn't see your post regarding the cover, think its important with the compression test?
 

Teseal

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Regarding the plug let me tell you why I bring that up. It was a bunch of years ago I had a 1977 150 Merc inline and I'm not a ramming around the lake type boater, more the fisherman type boating so that 150 was getting more lower rpm running than normal. Plugs, at the time were the center fire. It was suggested to me that Merc developed the center fire plugs for high speed 2 cycles where there was less opportunity for fouling at hotter higher rpm. There was a 'J' style plug replacement suggest by a "supposed" expert. The plug was listed by Champion as a replacement for the center fire with less likely hood of fouling. Unfortunately I never got the opportunity try the suggested replacements 'J's, someone offered me $1700 bucks for the motor and off it went.
 

merc850

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I have not checked the compression. Not sure how I would do that because the rope starter is in the cover, no access for the tester thro the cover. Guess I could see about putting/enlarging a hole through the bottom casting for the gage line.

About 2 minutes at a fast and slow idle, in gear and out, with the mixture needle at 1/1/2 turn in water in forward.
That's not the right plug for that motor - J8C https://www.oldmercs.com/category_s/1208.htm
 
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Teseal

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The Champion L78v is listed in the parts list I have, it superseded three other plugs no longer available. I mentioned that the motor had a J style plug in it when I picked it up but it was not the J8C. I threw the original plug in the box of used plugs I have and could not find a J8C in the box.

I did check the link you listed showing J8C.

Check another source and came up with still another plug, B5HS-33 (?)

Parts list I have (Mercury Marine) lists the NGK BUHW-2 as the original which is center fire, (my apologizes allow me to correct my terminology) surface fire plug. The L78v is suppose to be its Champion equivalent.

Interesting tho when I originally thought of using a J plug I believe the first plug suggested by Champion was the J6c, then the J8c.

I'm inclined to try a J style plug

 

racerone

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Where did you find the listing for the L78V for this 1965 motor ?
 
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