Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Thanks in advance for your help everyone.

Background: I have a 1976 35' Silver Queen houseboat I just bought in this current state. I have drilled into the stringers in a few places and found some wet wood. The wood is worst in the deepest part of the V where water collects. The stringers appear to be just 2x4's across the width of the boat, with unglassed 2x4's tapered into the top, for the floor. I have never seen stringers that just run side to side, usually you see something more substantial front to back. The wood in the stringers is still firm for the time being and the glass appears to be more substantial than usual. Probably two layers of 24oz roving. I can kick them and they don't move. Also the original builder did a terrible job getting the glass to the end of the stringer, most are exposed but still solid. The hull is solid around 3/8 and 1/2 solid fiberglass from that same heaving roving.


Stringers:
1: Do I gut them all out and replace with same simple 2x4, and similar glass. Maybe change to epoxy and biaxial?
2: Do I count the wood as lost and glass over the existing stringers with several layers of new glass and hope the glass casings will be enough strength. I would also tab in the upper uncovered 2x4's to add additional strength.
3: Do I sandwich new 2x6's to the stringers and either glass or through bolt them onto the existing part? I saw this on a YouTube diy network houseboat remodel show.
4: Some other method. The reason I don't want to gut and replace if possible is there are a lot of stringers in the boat and if I don't have to do demolition work that would be nice. I hate to destroy whats there, it is providing some strength. The stingers are holding the boats shape on the stands right now so I don't think I could cut them out all at one. It will only be a displacement speed boat so I'm not terribly worried about weight.
5: Any alternative materials I should use beyond fir 2x4's


Foam: It appears that this boat never had any. If I were to add float foam I don't think I have space for the cubic feet required for a boat this size. What are your recommendations and laws about this in a boat this big. Do I bother, or add as much as I have space for and hope for the best? I have considered using Styrofoam up to a 1/2 inch of the stringers and floor, and using a high density expanding foam to fill the gaps and make a solid structure. I did that on my Supra and it worked really well.

Thanks so much. I'm sure I will have more questions later.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... Yer craft looks alot like My Barge, a Nauti-line 34'er... Built alot different though...

My support structure of more of an egg grate fashion, is pretty much all 3/4" plywood...

Are there any limber holes at the bottom of the "V" to promote Drainage to a pumpable bilge,..??

As for Foam, in a barge this big, Forgetaboutit..... imagine tryin' to fish a wire or cable through that stuff,...
It's Unneeded, 'n Unwanted...

Yer #3 sounds like addin' Serious Tonnage,... Nothin' I'd do....

Yer boats a '76,... It's older than Dirt, though Mine's a '69...
Ya say the wood is wet, but stable,..??

I'd dry it out, 'n antifreeze treat it, 'n put it back together as you propose,...
cappin', sealin' what's there, 'n make sure it Drains...
#2, the glass structured tunnels, Do provide Alota Strength,...

Wood is mostly needed to hold a screw...

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Bond-o said:

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... Yer craft looks alot like My Barge, a Nauti-line 34'er... Built alot different though...

My support structure of more of an egg grate fashion, is pretty much all 3/4" plywood...

Are there any limber holes at the bottom of the "V" to promote Drainage to a pumpable bilge,..??

As for Foam, in a barge this big, Forgetaboutit..... imagine tryin' to fish a wire or cable through that stuff,...
It's Unneeded, 'n Unwanted...

Yer #3 sounds like addin' Serious Tonnage,... Nothin' I'd do....

Yer boats a '76,... It's older than Dirt, though Mine's a '69...
Ya say the wood is wet, but stable,..??

I'd dry it out, 'n antifreeze treat it, 'n put it back together as you propose,...
cappin', sealin' what's there, 'n make sure it Drains...
#2, the glass structured tunnels, Do provide Alota Strength,...

Wood is mostly needed to hold a screw...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input that what I wanted to hear.

There are no holes for drainage, but I plan to bore and glass in some pvc to do the trick.

OK I wont add to much more wood or foam.

Any tips to drying it out?
After that antifreeze and more glass. Seems simple enough.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

nicbinc04 said:

Thanks for the input that what I wanted to hear.

There are no holes for drainage, but I plan to bore and glass in some pvc to do the trick.

OK I wont add to much more wood or foam.

Any tips to drying it out?
After that antifreeze and more glass. Seems simple enough.

Click to expand...

Ayuh,.... Fans,.... Movin' Air, moves water...

Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

I have a 1976 35' Silver Queen houseboat I'm restoring. I have several holes and soft spots to repair from the previous owner. After that is repaired properly I plan to do a bottom coat to seal and catch any micro cracks I may have missed. West system looks like it uses their standard epoxy resin for this job. I will be using US composites resin but it should be the same.

My question is: When your coating the bottom of the boat in resin does it make sense to add a layer of biaxial or cloth fiberglass? I think it could be done and would provide more strength and water proofing and would keep checking and cracking to a minimum.

I have never seen this done maybe its too hard maybe its a waste. What do people think on this.

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

If you use Epoxy resin it doesn't not need it cause it is strong by itself but it certainly would add more strength with a layer of cloth. If it is poly resin then you absolutely must use some type of cloth, biax or mat.

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Do you have access to the inside of the hull in all the places where the outside needs to be repaired? Soft spots and suspected cracks and gouges that are showing glass from the outside, need to be repaired from the inside and the outside, both. Small gouges and scrapes can be done from the outside only. Your hull is made from Polyester resin and you can use it to do all the repairs. epoxy has it's virtues but it is not needed if you don't want too. Working with Epoxy "Upside down" as you will be doing, WILL be a PITA!!!!! Epoxy has NO UV prvention sooooo it must be coated. Even though its on the bottom of the boat. Are you going to Paint the hull or Gelcoat it? If Gelcoating you MUST use Poly NOT Epoxy if you want to ensure a good strong bond of the Gelcoat.

One other thing, You will usually get better results to keep all your posts concerning your Boat Project in the same thread. It gets confusing when you have multiple threads about the same boat. Forum Guidelines will tell you this.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum-rules-guidelines/forum-rules-397820.html

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

I do have access to the inside as the interior is gutted. I will use a anti fouling paint to coat the bottom, so uv is not such an issue. But if don't need any epoxy it would be cheaper to buy a mess of polyester and do all the repairs with that. But if I get a significant value from coating the bottom in epoxy and making repairs in epoxy I would be fine with the extra cost.

I would like to have a build thread. Should I edit or delete one of these threads into that?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Poly would be fine for all your repairs no real extra benefit for what you need.

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

nicbinc04 said:

I do have access to the inside as the interior is gutted. I will use a anti fouling paint to coat the bottom, so uv is not such an issue. But if don't need any epoxy it would be cheaper to buy a mess of polyester and do all the repairs with that. But if I get a significant value from coating the bottom in epoxy and making repairs in epoxy I would be fine with the extra cost.

I would like to have a build thread. Should I edit or delete one of these threads into that?

Click to expand...

Ayuh,... I'll merge yer threads for ya,...

I think what yer proposin' is Way overboard, 'n unnecessary myself...

Fix it, sand it, fair it, resand it, 'n bottom paint it....

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Since you have access to the inside of the hull, I'd use the poly for sure. Bond-o is Spot On about just fixing what needs to be fixed. If you are trying to fix her for resale/profit. Fuhgitaboutit!!!! Not gunna happen. You'll be lucky to break even. Poly resin, CSM, and 1708 Biaxial cloth will be all you need to effect the repairs. Lot's of examples here on the forum so do some searching and post some pics of the areas in question.

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Re: Bottom coat the hull with epoxy and glass?

Bond-o said:

Ayuh,... I'll merge yer threads for ya,...

I think what yer proposin' is Way overboard, 'n unnecessary myself...

Fix it, sand it, fair it, resand it, 'n bottom paint it....

Click to expand...

My thoughts as well....If She were (was) mine!

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

When using epoxy, the strength is in the epoxy. You use cloth to build thickness. If you want it to be as strong and as moisture proof as possible, use the epoxy. I recommend the US Composites 635 epoxy. If you want to save money and get by as cheap as possible, use poly. Poly has a good primary bond, as the boat is being built, but not a very good secondary bond. Epoxy has a MUCH higher secondary bond. Your boat, Your choice.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

The strength is not in the epoxy, although it is better than polyester, the actual strength is in the glass, or whatever fiber is used.

nicbinc04

If you are just trying to seal up some cracks and such in the hull with a layer of epoxy, don't do it, there's no real benefit. If you are going to leave it in the water for long periods of time and want to help prevent blisters, then an epoxy barrier coat can be an option and may be of some benefit. But, if after all these years it hasn't blistered, chances are it won't.

In one pic of the inside it looked like there were some stress cracks in the hull side, you may want to investigate the reason for them, might be from a one time impact, or a weak spot from a poor design.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

The story with the boat is that it broke free of its moorings and washed up on shore in a storm. The boat was last registered in Kentucky in 06. I have no idea how it ended up in Colfax WA but that where I bought it from. There are several holes along the port seam and at least one hole underneath with several damaged areas. The stress crack may have come from this incident. Also when we were jacking it to get it on the trailer there was some cracking going on.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

I drilled some 1 inch holes in the bottom of the stringers to promote water flow and investigate. Most were solid wood all were wet and a few of the front stringers were soup inside. I have decided that I would be a fool to try and bandaid this while I have it apart. So I will be replacing the stringers with similar to original design. I will try and do a better job at water flow and water proofing than the original builder.

My plan is to use 2x4's like original. Polyester resin with 2 layers of 1708 glass. I am trying to figure the best place to buy resin. I may need as much as a drum. Fiberlay in Seattle is where all the local shops buy theirs. They charge 2.75 a pound which I thinks works out to less that $30 a gallon.

Here are some sharper pictures of inside

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

There are two main areas of marine use. Because of the better mechanical properties relative to the more common polyester resins, epoxies are used for commercial manufacture of components where a high strength/weight ratio is required. The second area is that their strength, gap filling properties and excellent adhesion to many materials including timber have created a boom in amateur building projects including aircraft and boats.

While it is common to associate polyester resins and epoxy resins, their properties are sufficiently different that they are properly treated as distinct materials. Polyester resins are typically low strength unless used with a reinforcing material like glass fibre, are relatively brittle unless reinforced, and have low adhesion. Epoxies, by contrast, are inherently strong, somewhat flexible and have excellent adhesion. However, polyester resins are much cheaper.

Source: Epoxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many sources

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Yes epoxy is stronger than polyester, it is still the fibers that create the greatest percent of the strength though, the fibers are not there to just help build bulk.

In a repair like this there will be little difference in the final outcome whether epoxy or polyester is used.

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

I cut 16 new stingers of the 20 stringers today. The only thing I'm worried about is where the two stinger pieces meet will be a weak point. That's the way it was originally but the glass was weakest there. Any advice to join them together?

Re: Need advice repairing stringers in Silver Queen houseboat

Run a 1 1/2" deep dado in the ends of each 2X @1/2" wide & glue in a 3" biscuit of 1/2" plywood between them.