MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Helipro

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Oct 26, 2012
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Hello Forum, First of all I would like to thank everyone for all of the information that comes out in this forum.

About 4 weeks ago I purchased my very first boat. She's an older Sundancer 260 that came with a pair of MCM165's and from what I'm able to get from the good folks at Mercursier, MC1 stern drives. I knew this was going to be a project so I'm good with that and hope to have some water testing going on in about a month or so (depending on my time off). What started with a couple of batteries and a starter, has turned into pulling the engines (to replace ring gears), have the exhaust risers hot tanked, and get the new starters installed (out of the boat). The project has also expanded to the stern drives. Partly because I'm a little annal retentive and can't imaging doing a job just half way. I plan to have my grand kids out on this beautiful boat and need everything to be right. This is definitely a DIY project, since I've been turning wrenches on aircraft for the the last 40 years, and have a "Boat Load" of tools in my garage (no pun intended...:>), and I enjoy doing this kind of work. What I find though is that the "Marine Application" of my past experience has me on a learning curve that looks like the "Space Shuttle" tragectory... So many different kits, engine types, installations, and systems, all on just one hull type. Kind of makes my head spin... Okay, enough being wordy... Here's the question for this post.

After I got the drives off, I noted that the port drive shaft bellows had a lot of water in it, and the gimbal bearing was frozen. No problem, I found a great shop here in San Diego that had all the parts needed for this part, and lots of info on how to do the job here in the forum. After I got the bell housing off, I found that the tilt limit switch wiring was bad, so decided to remove the gimbal ring, to strip, inspect, and repaint... Did I mention I was a little annal retentive?

I'm at the point where I need to remove the upper pivot pin, and I'm having difficulty finding info on this part of the project. The info I've found doesn't seem to match the installation I'm looking at. I see that on the underside of the upper pin, there is an 'Allen Screw" installed in the center of the pin and the pin appears to be split. There is also, what appears to be a long (3.5" maybe) locking pin with an allen head, that passes through the aft side of the upper gimbal ring. Both the allen screw in the upper pin and the retaining pin require a 1/4" allen wrench. Both of these are pretty corroded, and I don't want to break or strip the heads.

Does anyone have any suggestions on getting these unfrozen, and getting the pins out? I see thare's a special tool for the upper pin, but think I can manufacture one myself once I get the allen scew out for a thread reference. I'm soaking then right now in "Mouse Milk" hoping to free them up.

My drives S/N is 6161319 and it bolts up to the MCM165 S/N B600593

Here are a couple of photo's of the parts I'm referring to.

View attachment 176043View attachment 176044

Thanks in advance,

Randy O
 

Grub54891

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Attachments don't work for me? Mabe it's my I pad?
 

Bamaman1

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Congratulations. I like to see someone that's willing to get in there and learn about boats. The MC1 lower units went on up into the 80's and were the second generation of Mercruiser lower units. I always liked that straight 6 Chevy motor much better than the old 140 hp motor I had on an Aristocraft 19'.

Get yourself a good Clymer Mercruiser manual. It'll show how to go about with the repairs you need. My biggest issue was with the big bellows over the drive shaft. Mercury designed it with only a small lip on each end, and I've not had luck getting the clamps to stay on or get a good seal. Of course you've got to use the Mercruiser Bellows Sealant--which is some greasy stuff to deal with.

The best thing I ever did was make friends with the straight inboard/Mercruiser mechanic at my local boat dealership. He was like an uncle and taught me much about I/O's. Mucho repairs is why I've switched over to Yamaha outboard motors.

I/O's are fine when they're new, but about 6-7 years old they start needing bellows and other maintenance. And I refuse to pay $110 an hour labor for anything I can do myself. Just work at it, and you can get your boat in good order. That's a fine hull to begin with.
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Post a picture showing the transom shield, You pictures don't look like the years of the serial numbers you posted.
What year is the boat?
Also, don't waste your money on a clymers manual. If they were compared to food, the OEM manuals would be a steak dinner, Seloc would be a hot dog, Clymers would be a stale bag of crushed potato chips.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

.... I always liked that straight 6 Chevy motor ...

Nope... They are '470's... 1987, 3.7 litre, 4cyl, 165hp. 2 bbl carb.
The drives are 1982, MC-1...

Bamaman1 said:
Get yourself a good Clymer Mercruiser manual.

ROFLMAO.... The worst manual EVER!!!! The words 'good' and 'Clymer' can't be used in the same paragraph, let alone in the same sentence.... Good one B-man.... :D:D:D

Bamaman1 said:
Mucho repairs is why I've switched over to Yamaha outboard motors.
Oh boy, are you in for a shock when those puppies get a bit older!!! :facepalm:

Ok... for the OP... Here is an OEM engine manual for you -> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1TAvwZ3TjhfNUtFamtXdDZBUTA
and the drive manual -> https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1...ODAxOS00YWZjLWFmZDgtZjMxNjQxOTkzMzUz&hl=en_GB
Download and Save...

Chris.........
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Odd, yesterday, I could open your pictures, can't today.

The picture of the gimbal ring showed the old style from 1970-1977 with a bolt in the side. (see picture below).
The outdrive serial number is for a MC-1 drive from 1982 with a 1.98 gear ratio, that ratio is typically found on the smaller 3.0L engines.
Your engine however, is a 1987 model 165 3.7L (aka 470 type) engine. They normally ran with a 1.84 gear ratio.
So it looks like your drive train is kind of a collection of parts. What is the serial numbers of the other engine and drive, and maybe some new pictures of all the transom shield
.
I did download one of your pictures to enlarge and get a better look.

PB300086.JPG

Might want to look at this on how to post a picture.
How to Post Pictures - The Basics - Page 1 - 468676
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Hi Don, et...all,

Yes I'm coming to the conclusion you've just made. It would apear that I do have a collection of components in the drive system, which is making this project all the more interesting when trying to get data and maintenance info. The boat is registered as a 1979, however, based on photo's I've found on the web, and some Mercruiser brochures (still available) it appears to be a 1980 model Sundancer 260. I'm basing that conclusion on the windshield installation, whch is inverted (slants forward) to reduce spray, kind of like the pilot house spray shield we had on the tuna boats.
The engines are another interesting situation. The port engine has a serial number of B600593, which makes it a 1987 (per Mercruiser support). The starboard engine does not a serial number anywhere to be found, but appears to be identical except for a 3" heat exchanger Vs a 4" installed on the port side. I'll be able to have a better look once I get the engines out of the boat. The port stern drive has a placard with the S/N of 6161319 still installed, and again the starboard drive does not have a S/N anywhere but appears to be identical. I'm getting the impression that the stern drive is different from the Transom system? And these do appear to be of a much older design as there is no trim indication system installed.
Here a couple of photo's of what I;m working on:
(Not sure how to make the photo's visible in the text box?)

The "Mouse Milk" is not working to get the allen screw out of the upper pin or retaining pin right now... will let it soak for a few more hours then maybe try some heat?

It appears that these parts were "Steel" and not stainless ... arrrgh!!!! I'm still not sure how the upper pin works? Why was it split? and why the allen screw up the center of it? Maybe to expand it and lock it in place? Like I said I'm still working on the theory of marine mechanics.

Again, thanks everyone for all of your feed back so far.

I did purchase some manuals. Fron Mercruiser, I got Manual #8 for the engines, from my parts house in Point Loma, I got a SELOC "Stern Drives" manual for 1964 thru 1991 (kind of helpful but not great), and the guy that sold ne the boat had a MC P/N 90-12934-2 1097 manual that he gave me, but looking at the P/N online I don't think this is applicable to my equipment. I'll probably call Mercruiser on Monday and get the OEM sterndrive manual. Is there a manual for the transom too?

Thanks.... PC010100.jpgPC010101.jpgPC010102.JPG
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

You Guy's are AWESOME!!!! I just got a look at the Stern Drive manual.... What a gold mine.

Thanks,

Heli
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

The links that Achris posted are for the OEM manual. #4 is the one you want for the drive, but it doesn't have anything on that transom shield. For the transom shield you need manual #2 You can download it HERE. You really don't need the whole manual, but it has the info you need for the transom shield. (section 6A) It should answer a lot of your questions on the gimbal ring bolt.

Be careful which ujoint bellows you order, in your center picture I notice there is no groove where the bellows sets, so that is an old one.
There are bellows with the ridge in it and those without.
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

The engines are another interesting situation. The port engine has a serial number of B600593, which makes it a 1987 (per Mercruiser support). The starboard engine does not a serial number anywhere to be found, but appears to be identical except for a 3" heat exchanger Vs a 4" installed on the port side. I'll be able to have a better look once I get the engines out of the boat. The port stern drive has a placard with the S/N of 6161319 still installed, and again the starboard drive does not have a S/N anywhere but appears to be identical. I'm getting the impression that the stern drive is different from the Transom system? And these do appear to be of a much older design as there is no trim indication system installed.

The early 470's and 485's (up to about 1980) used the 3" heat exchanger, and there was problems with those not being big enough. Merc then came out with the 4" heat exchanger, and had a kit to replace the 3".
Here is a service bulletin on the cooling system.

View attachment 82-5 470 Cooling sys. troubleshooting.pdf
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Don, you are certainly the Meister!!!! the link to manual #2 was just what I needed. This is the drive I'm working (struggling) with right now. The "Mouse Milk" is not working for getting the allen screw / bolt(s) out of the gimbal ring. They're pretty frozen in there. I think I can manufacture some special tools to get the tilt limit switch replaced, but I'm pretty close to the point of having to make a decision about the gimbal ring and housing. There's no significant radial play in either the upper or lower pins, and would proubably last another season or two??? If I get too much more agressive, I'll destroy them and will wind up replacing them anyway. Thinking about letting them ride for a season and then look at upgrading the whole transom system to a later model that incorporates the side trim switches and indicators... Sound reasonable? Here's a photo of the bottom side of the upper pin:

Oh and thanks for the SB... I'll be looking into that.



Thanks again...

Heli
 

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Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Just got back from Dallas last night. Where I found out you can't fly an EC135 helicopter for very long if you're inverted and have zero airspeed... LOL (Sim training is great). While I was gone I got to thinking about these transoms, and how much work it's going to take to get them truly refurbished. Right now I'm thinking about upgrading these Pre-Alpha transom's with at least Alpha One Gen One transoms. Question... Can I replace these transoms and still use my stern drive units? If I do, can I use the inboard transom plates since their still in good shape? I can find the Transom assy's online for generally less than $300... Seems like a logical way to upgrade to a system with trim indicators and have later model equipment hanging off the stern.

Any thoughts?

Thanks ...

Heli.
 

Howard Sterndrive

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

alpha (Gen1) and mc1 drives interchange back and forth between each other's gimbal housings.

SEI has a brand new replacement drive in the correct ratio for your setup for around $1600 - usually costs more to rebuild one.
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Thanks Howard,

My drives are actually in pretty good condition. I think my choice of terms may have been misleading? I'm actually referring to the transom's and gimbal housings.

Heli
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

The transom is the back of the boat, made out of fiberglass and plywood.
This is the stuff mounted into the cutout in the transom.

attachment.php


Now exactly which parts are you referring to?
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Thank you Don,

So many things I've read lately has been referring to the components I'm talking about as the "Transom Assy"... I'll get the lingo and terminology sorted out soon. :>) The parts I'm thinking of replacing are the "Gimbal Housing" and aft (Housing, Gimbal Ring, and Bell housing). I guess my question correctly stated would be, if I change the Gimbal housing to an "Alpha One GenOne" type, will I also need to replace the Inner Transom plate?

Thanks in advance for you advice and patience.

Heli
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

.... I guess my question correctly stated would be, if I change the Gimbal housing to an "Alpha One Gen One" type, will I also need to replace the Inner Transom plate?

Yes. You will also need to plug 2 holes (next up from the bottom pair) and drill them slightly higher (from memory, but these days...:D), and enlarge the cutout slightly in the same area as the new holes.

It's not so hard as it sounds.
 

Helipro

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

Great and Thanks Achris,
I'm hoping to pull the engines next week for ring gears, starters, and some exhaust work (reconditioning). Once I get access to the engine compartment I'll post some photo's of the transom assy's. I've also heard that to do this mod, I may have to modify the shift linkage... let you know how that goes. This is going to be a fun project...

Heli
 

Don S

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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

You did notice Chris said Yes to answer if you need to replace the inner transom plate. There are going to be "Gotcha's" along the way, but they should all be fixable. You may start out with problems with the Exhaust Y's from one generation not fitting on the newer one.
There are just a lot of small variations and changes made from one year to the next that will make it impossible to say one will replace the other with no problems. I doubt if anyone a Merc could answer that one without some serious checking.
 

UNSUREBOATGUY

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
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Re: MC1 Rebuild Info Needed

I'm no expert and don't mean to create issues where there aren't any, but from the sight of the sealant around the gimbal housings, I would suggest checking the condition of the transom before investing too much in other parts. I hope it all turns out great.
 
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