Solenoid Ground?

I have an '81 Evinrude 35 with electric start that I have been pull starting for the last 4 or 5 years. I finally got tired of rope burns and sore shoulders so Ive replaced the starter. Got this shiny new starter on it but the solenoid that I jury-rigged a couple of years before the previous starter literally fell apart on me has also taken a dump. Now Im looking at putting a new solenoid on it but I cant remember how the original solenoid got its ground.

Before the starter went to pieces I had put a Ford solenoid on it since it was about half the price of the same thing in marine grade. Naturally, I had to add a ground wire to get it to work. Now I can afford to do it right but before I spend money on the solenoid and wait on shipping I want to make sure I get everything I need all in one shipment.

I do have a short piece of black wire (about 3") that was attached to the starter mount, but its been disconnected for so long I cant remember what the other end was connected to. Ive looked for diagrams and breakdowns but I havent found one that shows that wire or anything with an explanation on solenoid grounding.

This is the closest breakdown I have found but it doesnt show the mount or the wire. http://www.crowleymarine.com/johnson-evinrude/parts/44022.cfm
Does the wire I mentioned ground the solenoid? If not, where did it conect and how does hat solenoid function without a direct ground? Electrical gives me headaches as it is but this whole solenoid business keeps me in a bottle of Advil.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

The solenoid you referenced has 2 small connectors plus the 2 connectors for battery and starter. The wire from the ignition switch goes to one and that black wire (ground) goes to the other.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

bhile said:

The solenoid you referenced has 2 small connectors plus the 2 connectors for battery and starter. The wire from the ignition switch goes to one and that black wire (ground) goes to the other.

Click to expand...

I thought about it after hitting 'Submit' and if I remember correctly that black wire connected to the base of the starter but I just cant be sure. I dont think it goes to the side posts of the solenoid because its got the factory round terminals on it and both ends are nearly big enough to fit two of the solenoid posts in. The side posts for the ignition wire is only about 1/8" dia. while the wire terminals are fitted for closer to 1/4"+/-. The nut on the second post would actually fit INSIDE the terminal.

It was explained to me way back when that the second post was for a second remote switch. Not sure if this was the case, but as far as I can remember, only one of those posts ever had a wire on it on the original. Maybe that is another difference between the two, but Im pretty sure its not the black wire Im referring to that connects there and that may be something else that I have to find.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Well scratch that last comment. It hit me at about 2am this morning that an uncle has an Evinrude 25 close to the same year model with electric start so I just rode over and took a look at his.

You hit the nail on the head. His wire has been repaired at some point with new terminals, but that is exactly where his ran, from the starter mount to the bottom side post. Thats still got me scratching my head, I dont remember taking that wire loose. Makes me wonder now if that may be the why I had to replace that solenoid in the first place. Now Im wondering if that wire had come loose and there was actually nothing wrong with the solenoid itself. I need to go dig that wire up and double check it to make sure it does fit the posts.

Thanks for the info bhile, sorry ever doubted you.:facepalm:

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Ok, now Im officially stumped. The only thing I have changed is the solenoid and reconnected the factory ground wire but Im still getting the same issue.
Power at the battery cable, solenoid closes, but no power across the solenoid. I checked it with a voltmeter and theres 12.8v on the supply cable right up until you hit the button. Once the button is pressed, NOTHING. Nothing on the starter side of the solenoid, nothing on the supply cable. As soon as the button is pressed the voltage drops from the 12.8 to 0.00. Once the button is released, right back to 12.8 on the supply.

What gets me is 3 weeks ago when I left for work the thing worked fine. It took some fiddling with to get power across the old solenoid since it hadnt been used in several years, but it functioned all the same. Thats why a went for the new solenoid, thinking the old one had corrosion on the inside preventing the circuit from closing. Now, even with the new solenoid, I get nothing.

What am I missing?

Re: Solenoid Ground?

slick75 said:

Power at the battery cable, solenoid closes, but no power across the solenoid. I checked it with a voltmeter and theres 12.8v on the supply cable right up until you hit the button. Once the button is pressed, NOTHING. Nothing on the starter side of the solenoid, nothing on the supply cable. As soon as the button is pressed the voltage drops from the 12.8 to 0.00. Once the button is released, right back to 12.8 on the supply.
What am I missing?

Click to expand...

This would be normal if you are checking voltage with the meter leads connected across the solenoid terminals. Are you measuring this drop with the black meter lead connected to bare metal on the block?

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Yes, going to the bare metal of the starter mount itself. It made sense to me that if I had power on one side of the solenoid, then once its closed I should see a similar voltage on the other side.

I admit, the whole volt/ohmmeter thing confuses the heck out of me. I have always used them just for checking continuity in an unpowered circuit, this is the first time Ive used one to actually check the voltage while its functioning.

I think I got it sorted out after checking my uncles boat one more time. His main ground cable connects to the starter mount itself just above the solenoid, where mine is connected to the engine block behind the solenoid. Working on that I put another ground wire from the engine block to the starter mount. What gets me is that starter mount is bolted to the engine block, it should be grounded through that alone. Heck, it worked that way for the last 30 years since the boat left the factory. Whats changed?

The only thing I could come up with is his mount is in a bit cleaner than mine in the way of corrosion, apparently giving a better ground. Mine has a fine powdery spotting where his is nearly as clean as the day it was assembled. Im thinking thats why I was able to get it to work last month since I had taken the mount off and on a couple times through the process of changing the starter. Then it had time to get another layer of corrosion that blocked the ground.

Either way, thanks for the info, I really appreciate the time. Im sure it will come into play again in the future until I can get a new cowling seal and provide a better water/weather seal.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Bad connections of any electrical wires are not good and cause lots of trouble. Make sure all conections are bright and shiney an use dielectric grease or liquid rubber to seal them from the weather and corrision. By doing so will save alot of headachs latter.
Oldman570

Re: Solenoid Ground?

oldman570 said:

Bad connections of any electrical wires are not good and cause lots of trouble. Make sure all conections are bright and shiney an use dielectric grease or liquid rubber to seal them from the weather and corrision. By doing so will save alot of headachs latter.
Oldman570

Click to expand...

'Dielectric', THATS the name of that stuff. As I was walking out to disconnect the charger this morning I was trying to think of what that stuff was called in the hopes of finding some somewhere but I just couldnt think of the name of it.

I know at one time there was a liquid rubber product that came in a quart can but I havent seen it in several years. Do you have a name brand to look for? At some point I want to start dipping some of the connections such as trolling motor leads.

This boat has been a project boat since the day I bought it. When I got it back in '01 it wasnt much more than a semi-running motor and an aluminum hull. Ive replaced plywood and carpet a couple of times, put on a new trolling motor, new seats, etc, etc. Most of the work Ive done until now has been just trying to keep it in usable condition but now Im trying to get rid of some of my redneck engineering and get it back to something I can be proud to be seen in. Fortunately, most of its simply cosmetic so it not stuff that keeps me from using the boat. Heck, Ive been pull-starting the thing for so long that I wont know what to do when I get it in the water and not have to leave my seat to start the motor.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Delectric grease by Peratex can be bought at most any auto mitive store and in diffrent size tubes. Works great for all electrical conectios.
Oldman570

Re: Solenoid Ground?

Ah, bliss.....
Thanks for the help everyone. I took the boat out yesterday and was able to enjoy being able to crank it without leaving the seat. Its been a long time since I was able to do that.

I still have to replace the electric choke assembly, but that will be on hold for a month or two. So far, thats the only reason to remove the cowling to start the engine -to close and open the butterfly manually, and then its only on the first start-up. After that it starts just fine without the choke so its not real high on my priority list.

I really appreciate everyones advice and info.

Re: Solenoid Ground?

slick75 said:

I know at one time there was a liquid rubber product that came in a quart can but I havent seen it in several years. Do you have a name brand to look for? At some point I want to start dipping some of the connections such as trolling motor leads.

Click to expand...

You can get this stuff most places that sell wire terminals etc. like radio shack or home depot auto parts stores. Look near the electrical tape and wiring parts.