Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank? PROJECT COMPLETE WITH PICS

coastalrichard

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I've made the decision to convert to an electric winch...it'll be here in 2 days. Are there any special considerations when installing? I purchased a Powerwinch Model 912 here on iboats.
 

dingbat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

One would think that someone would ask for special considerations before buying the winch. :D

There are four issues you need to watch when purchasing a power winch

1. The output of the motor is fixed.
You can't just put a little more shoulder into to get you that last couple of feet.

2. Winches are rated with an empty spool.
With the average winch spool being ~3" in diameter, the working pull of the winch with a full spool (that last couple of feet to the winch stand) is 1/3 of the rating. Buy a winch that has a rated pull equal to the weight of your boat

3. Speed can be a problem.
Using a reduction pulley will increase the pull so you can load more weight with a smaller winch, but it also cuts your load speed sometime in half. Buy a winch that will pull the boat on the trailer w/o using a reduction pulley if possible

4. Do not skimp on the size of the wire running to the winch.
The easier way to burn up a motor is to under power it with either too small of a supply or too small of wire between the supply and the motor. My winch is sized almost 1:1 with the eight of the boat. My typical
 

coastalrichard

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Thanks Dingbat. The rig in question is shown in my sig. I am generously figuring total loaded weight of 5-6K lbs and the winch is rated to 11,500 lbs. It comes with 50' of 7/32 cable and a block pulley. The only spec I cannot determine is the size and length of the power cords.

I've seen setups with the cables long enough to reach the vehicle battery and some that just hook up to a battery stowed in the bed of the truck. Would there any problems with mounting a battery (boxed, of course) on the front of the trailer?
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

I've been using Powerwinches almost all my life and am a big fan. I spent my teen years hand cranking on tilt trailers and dry retrieves.

Don't put a battery on the trailer. Use the one already installed under the hood. That's all you need.

Be sure to use the wiring that (should) come with the winch. It has to be heavy duty and have the circuit breakers. You can put jumper cable clamps on one end and just hook to the battery, or hard wire the rig to your tow vehicle. Just connect to battery, run the wire under the vehicle, and find a way to tuck it in (I stuff mine into the trailer hitch bar). It's bad when they come loose and drag. BTDT.
My dad had the wires hard wired and run to the trunk or spare tire well of his cars. But having the cable loose means you can use other tow vehicles.

Be sure to leave enough wire to be able to turn; or disconnect before pulling up the ramp.

ETA: when doing the wiring, and clamping, be very careful about polarity. It matters.

You will probably not need the block and therefore you won't need 50' of cable. But since you've bought it, see if it works. You may find a shorter cable works better if you don't need to double it.

Roller trailer? You probably won't need to sink the trailer. That's one of the main advantages of a power winch and your axles and brakes will thank you.

Keep the hand crank with you in case of winch failure. That's when, not if.

Some people loosen the clutch while towing and use other means to secure the boat to the trailer, so the bouncing won't stress the clutch. I go both ways on that.

When rigging and pulling up the first time, be mindful that the cable shouldn't cut through the bow stop rollers; you need a direct shot.

Although you can rig it to pull the boat off to launch, if you have rollers you won't need to. Some people leave the cable hooked up when they launch to pull it out, but I don't; I pull it out by hand before I retrieve.

Even though they have level-wind, it's a good idea to feed the loose cable and add tension by hand while taking up the slack. You'll learn not to roll out too much. I put the bow on the first roller of the trailer, so the cable is not pulled out all the way to the end, but is between the axle and end of the trailer.

Your boat and winch are new enough that you don't have to worry about the bow eye coming loose or the cable snapping, but get in the habit of inspecting them and standing to the side. Lubricate the cable to prevent rust but do not use WD40. I think the cable and winch will weather better left uncovered, to dry out, rather than encased with moisture.
 

JimS123

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

My PW model 912 is 28 years old now and has never even burped. I use a single line pull for a boat that's about 2500 lbs. All roller trailer. I keep the clutch tight when traveling. The wire is permanently mounted in the trunk, and is run thru the car under the carpet, thru the firewall and permantly attached to the battery.

The manual crank handle is kept in the toolbox in the trunk, as is the original hand winch that came with the trailer. Have not had to use either one yet. Maybe this year....LOL.

I also use a QD attachment to the winch stand. The PW is stored in the trunk at the launch ramp.
 

coastalrichard

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Home Cookin....again, YOU'RE THE MAN!!! Those are the tidbits that I wanted to avoid any SHT's

JimS123....QD....is that "quick disconnect" for the winch on the post...then into the truck while you're away?

BTW, I also decided to purchase a taller winch post (going from 36" to 48") to permit more flexibility with the height of the new winch so I can be certain to get it above the eye. Will trailer with a 3/8" cable from the eye at the base of the post to the eye of the boat.
 

dingbat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Thanks Dingbat. The rig in question is shown in my sig. I am generously figuring total loaded weight of 5-6K lbs and the winch is rated to 11,500 lbs. It comes with 50' of 7/32 cable and a block pulley. The only spec I cannot determine is the size and length of the power cords.

I've seen setups with the cables long enough to reach the vehicle battery and some that just hook up to a battery stowed in the bed of the truck. Would there any problems with mounting a battery (boxed, of course) on the front of the trailer?

Congrats. Sounds like you did your home work.

I started out using a jump box. It worked pretty well until the day the jump box died. My winch does have a hand crank so we spent 45 minutes getting the boat back on the trailer w/o the winch. I decided right then and there I was going to run the wires to the battery. Even if you mount a battery on the trailer, you still need somehow to charge the battery. It is easiest to just run the cable to the battery and be done with it.

I highly recommend using there connectors to connect the truck to the trailer. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ANDERSON-POWER-PRODUCTS-WireCable-Connector-3BY25?Pid=search 5 years of SW usage w/o a hiccup
 

H20Rat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

The wire is permanently mounted in the trunk, and is run thru the car under the carpet, thru the firewall and permantly attached to the battery.

Hopefully the wire is fused within 18 inches of the battery? I've seen more than my share of vehicles burn to the ground because of installs pretty much identical to the above, minus the fuse. It might be good for a month, year, or years, but eventually an aftermarket wire installed in someone's garage will rub through on a bare metal spot.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Just a tip on wire size, people underestimate what they need 99.9% of the time. If you aren't used to working with high amperage 12v electronics, the size of the wire might seem absurd! I can run an entire house off a 10 gauge wire, so why do I need a 2 or 0 gauge for a single winch?


Good discussion on wire size below... In general, 8 gauge is undersized for pretty much any winch if you are coming from the main battery. 4 gauge is marginal, 2 gauge will get you up to a 12k winch if the lengths aren't too long. (2 gauge wire has about 1/4 of an inch of copper, with at least that much cladding. For comparison, the total wire size is between a dime and nickel in diameter... Pretty serious wiring!

As someone above mentioned, you will kill a winch by underpowering it. (stall out and burn up) You won't ever burn one up from having too large of wiring though!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/51710-Superwinch-Rear-Winch-Wiring-Size
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

good points, Smoke, which is why play it safe and use the Powerwinch wire harness even though they are expensive. They come with big double fuses to be used at the battery end.
 

coastalrichard

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Just a tip on wire size, people underestimate what they need 99.9% of the time. If you aren't used to working with high amperage 12v electronics, the size of the wire might seem absurd! I can run an entire house off a 10 gauge wire, so why do I need a 2 or 0 gauge for a single winch?


Good discussion on wire size below... In general, 8 gauge is undersized for pretty much any winch if you are coming from the main battery. 4 gauge is marginal, 2 gauge will get you up to a 12k winch if the lengths aren't too long. (2 gauge wire has about 1/4 of an inch of copper, with at least that much cladding. For comparison, the total wire size is between a dime and nickel in diameter... Pretty serious wiring!

As someone above mentioned, you will kill a winch by underpowering it. (stall out and burn up) You won't ever burn one up from having too large of wiring though!

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/51710-Superwinch-Rear-Winch-Wiring-Size

This discussion is precisely what led me to what Dingbat calls the jump box. I envision it being located at the base of the winch stand in a lockable battery box (heck, maybe a small locker for the battery and other accessories). This eliminates large, long cable runs...am I missing something? I have two chargers, as well.
 

coastalrichard

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

good points, Smoke, which is why play it safe and use the Powerwinch wire harness even though they are expensive. They come with big double fuses to be used at the battery end.

Home Cookin'....so I will need a wire harness in addition to what comes in the box with the winch? If I knew how, I would post a link of the item...it's right here in the winch pages. The harness shown in the pic sure does not look like 4/0 or 2/0.:confused:
 

coastalrichard

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

OK folks...thanks for all the pointers...I'll get busy with conversion and let you know how it turns out....might even post a vid of my "electrification launch":eek:NOT!
 

Fed

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Everything you need will be in the box and the cable will be big enough.

One thing to note is that for the level wind to work properly the plate the winch bolts to needs to be horizontal not angled up like they seem to be making now.

You will also notice in the directions there is a minimum distance between the winch & the bow stop roller.

Check the pictures in the link above and also note the bow stop roller is too low but at least the winch plate is horizontal.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

http://www.powerwinch.com/powerwinch/controller?action=product&c=15&p=8

So they don't mention the wire gauge unfortunately, but I agree, it doesn't look like anything bigger than 8 gauge from the pic. In the instructions, they also indicate that they run both the ground and the positive to the front of the vehicle, and that it has a 60 amp circuit breaker.

So lets do a little math... If its 60 amps, 50 ft of wire (you need to count total length, ground + positive), and 8 gauge wire, you will end up with a drop of 3.7 volts... In other words, the vehicle will have to be running just to get the winch to turn! 4 gauge gets it to an acceptable voltage drop of 1.5v, and 2 gauge gets it to .96v.
 

H20Rat

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

This discussion is precisely what led me to what Dingbat calls the jump box. I envision it being located at the base of the winch stand in a lockable battery box (heck, maybe a small locker for the battery and other accessories). This eliminates large, long cable runs...am I missing something? I have two chargers, as well.


the jumper box/locker gets around the cable run issue. Using my example above, if you only have 8 feet of power wire, 8 gauge will give you only .6v drop. That is substantially better than a 2 gauge run to the battery.
 

JimS123

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Hopefully the wire is fused within 18 inches of the battery? I've seen more than my share of vehicles burn to the ground because of installs pretty much identical to the above, minus the fuse. It might be good for a month, year, or years, but eventually an aftermarket wire installed in someone's garage will rub through on a bare metal spot.


The wire is the oem cable that came with the unit. The fuse block is also oem, and its installed right at the battery. I just followed the directions...LOL.

IMHO, routing it through the car is the best way to do it because its always out of the weather. The only "exposed" part is what's under the hood. If I had a pickup truck I think I would have considered a different approach.

The "quick detatchable" fittings were an option back then. My buddy solved the problem by welding his to the winch stand. I figured that was a bad idea because it would be too hard to service or replace if necessary.
 

jdlough

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Although you can rig it to pull the boat off to launch, if you have rollers you won't need to.

HomeCookin', can you explain this? I'm not getting what you're saying...

Do you mean some use a winch to pull a boat off a trailer?


Btw, I read smokingcrater's link. I am stunned by the size of the wire needed for a D/C winch. I guess it makes sense when you consider the gauge of decent jumper cables.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

Re: Any tips for electric winches vs hand crank?

wait wait wait guys. the 50' CABLE is the winch cable. the WIRE isn't that long. But because it is OEM by a reputable and long-lived manufacturer, it's the right size.*
Mine has a shorter ground wire, so I ground it near the vehicle rear, and just run the one red cable up to the battery. I think the newer ones give you an equal run of each.

JD: run the winch cable under the trailer to a block (pulley) fixed on the trailer frame and then back to the bow eye. Turn on the winch. It pulls the boat back. You need to rig up guides and cable rollers, too. I just push mine off. Love my rollers.

*or it's 25' of positive and 25' of negative but that's a crazy way to describe an extension cord! And 50' of tow cable is too much as well. Oh well, they know what they are doing.
 
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