Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

We would like to purchase an 18' or so open bowrider to use on a 1,000 acre lake in Maine. We will do some fishing, tubing, and skiing. We have been told that we should stick to an outboard especially since this will be our first experience with owning a boat and they are less complicated by nature. We also don't want to spend too much as we are still learning. I've been doing some research and it seems like we should be able to get around a 1990 sea ray or four winns in the vicinity of $4k. We have three children (11, 10, and 7) that would need to fit and pull so I'm think I need 100hp or more. Beyond that I know we should be looking at the floor and overall shape of the interior as that would be an indication of whether it was cared for. I wonder if anyone would be willing to share some tips on what we should avoid or how to best "test" it. I know this is likely the most popular question asked here but I would be most thankful!! Jo-Ann

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Outboard motorboats tend to be more expensive than Inboard/Outboard (I/O) boats.

Keep in mind that a 1990 boat is 20+ years old and a fair amount of the boat's structure is wood (underneath all that fiberglass). So, the things to check are how solid is the wood.

Nothing beats a test ride on the lake (or ocean) to evaluate a boat engine's condition. Most engines, even in the worst of conditions, will run fine 'in the driveway'. If you have the proper tools, you can also do a compression test of the engine after you get back from your test ride on the lake.

Often, it is less expensive to buy a higher priced boat that needs little/no work, than it is to get a 'bargain' on a boat that needs moderate to major work. Elbow grease and sweat equity go only so far. Boat prices are negotiable as it is a perpetual buyer's market for boats. In this economy it is even more of a buyer's market for boats.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

You seem fairly aware of what to look/out for. Outboards are fairly easy to deal with. 4K will get you a nice used boat within your expectations. A test run and thurough exam is neccesary. Pretty doesn't equal good buy. CYA and go for it. Look for rust colored runs on the fiberglass, soft spots in the flat areas,(deck, floor, sole, etc.) Stick your head into "every" opening and look for something that doesn't look right. It's a buyers market and careful examination can get you a good deal and a lot of fun.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

If each child brings a friend (you will want this, it keeps them from getting bored), you are up to 8 passengers. Although are smallish now, I would suggest a 19'er minimum. You would be surprised how much extra room you get going from 18 to 19. Also, you will probably want a 115 minimum on the 18'er, 150 for a 19'er. That will be enough to get skiers up with out TOO much drag.

You will like the OB in Maine, they will extend the boating season because you don't have to worry about winterizing as soon as there is a frost, and can break them out anytime the weather is nice in the spring even if there is a chance for freezing later.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Hi Jo-Ann. Welcome to iBoats:

On a $4k budget, you should have a pretty good field of options to choose from. I agree with your leaning toward an outboard, but don't be overly afraid of the I/O's. Lots of people start with them and do just fine. Buying used boats is generally about condition more than manufacturer, and if you find a Sea Ray with an outboard that is in rough shape vs. a Bayliner I/O that has been well cared for you'll want to not be afraid of the better cared for boat.

The best "test" would be to pay a reasonable marine mechanic to go on a test run with you. $50 for an hour of their time to take a ride on it would be well worth it in most cases.

Another couple of things to consider is your tow vehicle (what will it handle), how/where you will store the boat (garage, back yard, rented storage, etc., etc.) and how soon until you'll want to go up a boat size. If you think you'll want to go bigger as the kids get older - don't worry too much about getting a decent 16' boat with a 70HP motor to start with. If you think you want to try to get something and keep it around for a while (I'm a cheapskate boater), then look to get into something between 17' and 20'.

Also, don't be afraid to post some boats you're looking at here on the forums. We're always glad to give opinions ... we've got lots of 'em

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Thank you all for the speedy feedback! I will compile my list of Craigslist ads tomorrow and would love any feedback. We are heading up there this weekend and hope to check out a few to get an idea of what we should be looking for.

We will be towing it just a short distance (1/4 mile) in and out of the lake with a toyota sienna awd. We will probably leave it in the water as often as possible so a bow and cockpit cover will be important I guess? In the winter we will probably do what it seems everyone else does on our lake and build a frame and cover with a tarp and stick it somewhere in the yard. In additional to the kids we have two large poodles to consider. A pontoon would probably fit the bill better but to get one powered enough to pull the kids woud cost more than we want to spend for starts.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

For a first boat an outboard is a little easier to maintain. Our family has owned about 15 boats in my lifetime and I finally bought my first one last July. If you can bump up your budget to get a boat in the late 90's? Your choices of better quality boats would be available. I have ski'd behind many boats and have to say a 140 hp o/b is good for just about any type of watersport your kids will want to do. In 96 my dad bought a brand new Campion Allante 190 at an auction with no motor for 7000 at the time. I have seen that same boat today with a 150 on it going for anywhere between $7000-1000. If you are not mechanically inclined. A 4k boat could be costing you 6k by this time next year.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

So here are some of the boats in my area that I'm interested in. Any rankings would be appreciated!

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2907653411.html
http://nh.craigslist.org/bod/2889088653.html
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/2901451317.html this looks smaller than 18' to me
http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/2898156160.html was $4,000 back in Feb
http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2874384376.html
http://nh.craigslist.org/bod/2889088653.html


A reach $$$ wise
http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/2847065581.html NADA is somewhere around $6,500

Speaking of NADA is it a pretty good guide price-wise?

Thanks!!!

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Those boats look pretty good . . . it will take some first hand looking to see for sure, 'cuz things tend to look better in pictures.

NADA . . . lots of opinions about it, but very little agreement. With the economy being down . . . NADA could actually be high versus what a boat will sell for.

The pricey 4Winns looks nice, but as you can see the owner wants to get some money out of it and may not be ready to budge. so, those situations can be a waste of time.

Maybe you can start 'kicking some tires'

I went to see 7 boats when I bought my boat . . . if there were 7 more to see I would have looked at those too.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

OK, you got me, I kept counting 7 links and 6 boats, until I figured out #2 and #6 are the same.

I would go look at all of these. As for brands, I have never heard of Conquest, Sunbirds are pretty low end; Wellcraft, Sea Ray and Four Winns have good reputations. At this age you can usually throw reputation out the window though, it more about the previous owners maintenance and condition. If they pass the look and feel test on driveway, make sure to get a lake test. If you can't drive it, move on. You will wan't to have several folks with you on the sea trial to simulate a full load.

Good luck!

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

2ndtry said:

OK, you got me, I kept counting 7 links and 6 boats, until I figured out #2 and #6 are the same.
QUOTE]

Yes, I'm sorry I tried like heck to get rid of it but it wouldn't save!

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Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Regarding the size of the outboard:

On the boat there will be a Coast Guard plate stating the Maximum number of passengers, Maximum passenger weight, Maximum total weight (passengers + motor + fuel + all your other junk), and Maximum rated horsepower.

The size of the outboard should be at least 75% of the rated maximum horsepower.

So, if the boat is rated for a 150HP motor, a 115HP outboard is the smallest that would work ok on that boat.

It won't be a speed demon, and won't be best for skiing, but it will get you around ok.

A motor closer to the rated maximum would be better, cuz it wont have to work as hard, and will be better for resale. For skiing you really need that power to yank your skiier up and onto the surface of the water quickly.
It's also handy if you have to outrun a storm and need to get back to port in a hurry.


NADA prices are not really useful. A value for a particular boat varies a lot in different parts of the country, and NADA does not take this into account. One time that NADA is useful is if it works in your favor for negotiating. If a guy is asking $7000, and NADA values it at $5000, point it out to him to get the price lower. If the guy knows how useless NADA is, this won't work, however.


The two most important things to check for a used boat are the deck/transom, and the motor.

Checking the transom can be tricky, but one test is to raise the outboard to its highest position. Then hang on the outboard, near the prop. Try to bend it up and down. The transom should not flex at all.

To check the deck, stomp around on the deck, every square inch. It should not flex at all. No soft spots. If you find a soft spot, do not buy the boat. Also, if the boat has pedestal seats, try to bend the seat back and forth, to see if the deck flexes under the seat (a common rot spot, water getting into the seat base screws)

If he says he replaced the deck. Do not buy the boat, unless he can show you a folder on his laptop containing 100+ pictures of his great work, and links to an iBoats restoration thread with everybody telling him what a great job he did.

For the motor, aside from making sure it actually runs, you should do a compression test on each cylinder. You can buy a compression tester from an auto parts store for under $40. The compression on each cylinder should be over 100psi, and more importantly should be within 10% of each other.

It's also best if you can see it start when completely cold. If the seller has already warmed it up before you got there, you can't tell how much of a pain in the butt it was to get it started.

Also check the oil/lube in the lower unit. Bring your biggest flat head screwdriver, and remove the lower drain screw. You only need to let a few drops dribble out onto a paper plate or something. If you see water, or milky, or streaky, that means there's a leak and water got into the lower unit. Not good.

Also not a bad idea to check the tilt/trim. Raise the outboard to its highest position. Leave it there. Check in 1/2 hour or so. If it dropped at all, it may just need fluid, or it may have a leak. See if there's any fluid leaking around any seal.


Do not be embarrassed about anything. Ask stupid questions, stick your head into all hatches, reach down in there searching for wet foam, test all gauges, navigation lights, bilge pump, wiggle the steering wheel to see how much play there is.

If the guy's garage looks like a disorganized pig-pen, assume he was not too great with the boat's maintenance. If his garage has pegboards with tools hanging, each outlined with the shape of the tool, assume this is the anal-retentive boat maintainer guy you want to buy a boat from.

Make sure the trailer lights work. This is a cheap fix, so don't let it be a deal breaker. It may knock a bit off the price.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

jdlough: this list is great but scares the heck out of me as we know next to nothing about this stuff!! I will try to ask each stupid question as clearly as I can

Transom - back part where the motor is attached. Needs to hold the weight of the motor and might be a spot that would sag like under a large picture window in a house (I watch a lot of HGTV)?

I think I have the soft spot down. I will certainly ask if its been replaced and avoid that purchase.

On to the compression testing and totally newbie question - yikes, do outboard motors have multiple cyclinders? My FIL likely has a compression tester and I will ask.

Is the lower unit of the motor just the underside?

The ads on Craigslist do not mention power trim/tilt - do I assume they all have it? I think I understand the concept so you suggest raising it to see if when left in the raised state it stays there without slipping? I assume there is a cable that does this and this is where the leaks if any would be?

Thanks so much for everyone's advice!

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Jmpellet said:

jdlough: this list is great but scares the heck out of me as we know next to nothing about this stuff!! I will try to ask each stupid question as clearly as I can

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Relax, don't be scared. I was just listing every single thing I could thing of.

Transom - back part where the motor is attached. Needs to hold the weight of the motor and might be a spot that would sag like under a large picture window in a house (I watch a lot of HGTV)?

Yep, the transom needs to be solid. If you look from the back of the boat, and see holes where there used to be screws holding some electronic thing that is no longer there, them screw holes should be plugged. That transom area is just thick wood, surrounded by fiberglass. You don't want water getting into that wood. That wood could have water saturated in it from unsealed screw holes, cracks in the fiberglass, or just from water sitting in the bilge for years and wicking its way up into the transom. The best way to test is to drill a few test holes into the transom, check out the wood shavings, then seal the holes. The seller will not let you do that. SO, bending the outboard up and down might not tell you if the transom is good every time, but if it bends the transom, you know it is bad.

I think I have the soft spot down. I will certainly ask if its been replaced and avoid that purchase.

On to the compression testing and totally newbie question - yikes, do outboard motors have multiple cyclinders? My FIL likely has a compression tester and I will ask.

Yep, between about 85-175HP, outboards will have between 3 and 6 cylinders. If it's a carb outboard, each cylinder will have its own carburetor.

Is the lower unit of the motor just the underside?

Yep, the lower unit is that big chunk of the outboard from about the bottom to the boat on down. It's kinda like the rear axle on a rear wheel drive truck. Lots of gears in there, bathed in gear oil. If there's a leak in this area, water can leak INTO the lower unit, and freeze in winter, busting all kinds of expensive bits.

The ads on Craigslist do not mention power trim/tilt - do I assume they all have it? I think I understand the concept so you suggest raising it to see if when left in the raised state it stays there without slipping? I assume there is a cable that does this and this is where the leaks if any would be?

All of the boats you are looking at will have power tilt/trim. The cable is electrical only, so no leaks at the cable. Between the motor and the transom, (at the 'hinge' under the main motor) there will be a couple of canisters and a couple of hydraulic rods, to raise and lower the motor. If there are any leaks, they will be at these canisters or rods. On the main throttle lever, right next to your thumb, is the up/down switch. A bigger motor might have an extra switch right on the motor, for convenience while futzing with spark plugs or whatever. ...

Thanks so much for everyone's advice !....................................

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Jo-Ann: Well worth it to hire a local marine mechanic for an hour or two to look at a boat with you. Some will do that, some won't. You may have to call a couple, but even at $100 or so it's cheaper than buying a money pit.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Jo-Ann, we were in the same position as you (first time buyer, knowing nothing about buying a boat) and we took some good advice and had a mechanic check out a boat we were hoping to buy. We couldn't get a mechanic to the boat, but the seller agreed to take the boat to the marine shop and we had a mechanic go over it carefully. It cost us about $230 and was it ever worth it! He found all sorts of possible problems - the boat had been under water at some point, some parts were replaced with automotive (not marine grade) replacements, the alternator was rusty (probably from being underwater), etc. It saved us considerable time an aggravation. We later found a newer, cleaner boat that is a much better fit for us.

When I first read suggestions about having a mechanic look at all these things, I thought it was a bit over the top, but it was excellent advice. Saved me a bundle, I'm sure.

Hope you find a nice boat! Good luck!

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

That Four Winns is the only one of the group that has a fiberglass cockpit liner with snap in carpet. That's a major upgrade over the carpet/plywood soles in the rest of them. With that, there's no wet carpet and rotting floors to deal with. I've spent some time aboard one just like that and it's a great boat with plenty of power for water sports. I've also spent time aboard a Four Winns 170 Horizon with a 90 HP Johnson and it might suit your needs as well for less money.

If you are going to look into Four Winns, have a good lock at the gelcoat around the windshield frame, if the boat has been beat through rough water, the gelcoat will be badly cracked there.

What lake in Maine? We have vacation property in Bridgton and spend a lot of time on Highland Lake.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

One other thing, expand your craigslist search to NJ and NY. There's quite a few of these boats out/down that way and you may find a better deal. Outboard bow riders tend to hold their value better in New England than they do in NY and NJ.

Re: Newbie needs help and advice on bowrider purchase

Mischief Managed said:

That Four Winns is the only one of the group that has a fiberglass cockpit liner with snap in carpet. That's a major upgrade over the carpet/plywood soles in the rest of them. With that, there's no wet carpet and rotting floors to deal with. I've spent some time aboard one just like that and it's a great boat with plenty of power for water sports. I've also spent time aboard a Four Winns 170 Horizon with a 90 HP Johnson and it might suit your needs as well for less money.

If you are going to look into Four Winns, have a good lock at the gelcoat around the windshield frame, if the boat has been beat through rough water, the gelcoat will be badly cracked there.

What lake in Maine? We have vacation property in Bridgton and spend a lot of time on Highland Lake.

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We are on Lake Arrowhead in Waterboro. We needed to be in Southern Maine as we are from MA and didn't want to be more than three hours away from home.

I'm hoping my FIL can come up if we find a good one as he's is super handy and can probably help a lot. Good advice on bringing the boat to someone if I can't get someone to come to it.

What if you can't actually test the boat in the water if there is no lake nearby?