starter

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Hey guys,

So I have a question for you. I have a 1988 40hp evinrude tiller short shaft electric starter outboard. I had the carbs cleaned, the cables replaced and the solenoid fixed. My mechanic then said that the starter was bad. It was turning but not turning fast enough to turn the motor over. It would turn but it would take a while to do it and sometimes not work at all. Well I took my starter a starter repair place and they said at first it failed the bench test. They then said that they put new brushings in and then lubed it up and they said it passed a bench test at that point. I picked up my started and brought it back to my boat mechanic and he installed it. Nothing fixed the problem. It is still running slow and sluggish. The starter now when it turns makes a grinding noise inside the case. I took the end cap off and when you turn the pinion it just grinds and when you look inside the case itself it has pieces of the case missing inside from the grinding. Anyone got an idea why this would be or how to fix it? Could this be why it was running weird?

The starter repair shop said that although it worked for them when you put it back on the motor it wont work right sometimes. That seems odd to me. What do yall think?

Thanks in advance guys!

Thanks

f2k
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,333
Re: starter

Take it back to the "starter repair shop" and get them to do the job properly....if they know how. :facepalm:

If you can just get your money back and take it to a shop that actually repairs starters for a living, that would be a good result, too.
 

DavidAK

Cadet
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
19
Re: starter

Sounds like the bushings are bad allowing the armature to wobble. Does this model o/b require any shimming between starter and engine block?
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: starter

Starter probably wasn't the problem in the first place, f2k. Could be an example of fixing stuff that ain't broke causing new ($$) problems. Your starter is now broke. . .incorrectly reassembled?

3 out of 5 replaced starters are not bad.

Original problem was about 90% likely bad connections or corrosion in the battery cables.

Replace the busted starter and check for corrosion and/or bad connections.

Also possible that your battery is failing under load. Forget the voltmeter; check it with a hydrometer.

Let us know how you fare, and good luck. :)
 

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Re: starter

The starter was bad at first. My mechanic is the one that did all the work so far on the outboard. I know that most starters aren't bad but this one was when i bought the engine. My mechanic made sure all the connections were replaced and the solenoid was replaced and everything. We tried several batteries and cables. The cables are brand new so they aren't the problem.

The repair shop wont give me my money back and they just said that its the motor not the starter. They say that when a starter is good on the bench if wont work when you put in back in the motor for some reason.

So I guess the next step is just to get a new starter and hook it back up since everything else is brand new.
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,333
Re: starter

Hey guys, ....
.................................................. It is still running slow and sluggish. The starter now when it turns makes a grinding noise inside the case. I took the end cap off and when you turn the pinion it just grinds and when you look inside the case itself it has pieces of the case missing inside from the grinding. Anyone got an idea why this would be or how to fix it? Could this be why it was running weird?

The starter repair shop said that although it worked for them when you put it back on the motor it wont work right sometimes. That seems odd to me. What do yall think?

Thanks in advance guys!

Thanks

f2k



I agree with JB....in most cases a starter problem is not a problem with the starter at all. :eek:
But here, when there are bits of starter falling off and grinding internally on a "professionally" repaired starter, that shop may have just had a bad day....or they are incompetent.
 

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Re: starter

Well I guess the next step is to get a new starter or a new case maybe?

Also guys there is several different brands of starters for my year/hp/model motor is there any different in maker or are they all generally the same?

Thanks guys! Ive never had a forum respond so fast
 

Fed

Commander
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
2,457
Re: starter

I'd take that starter back to the shop and give them a look at it, they will probably reassemble it for free & send you on your way to go & find the real problem. (It would only take them 5 minutes to put it back together).
Throw yourself on their mercy.
If you're not prepared to get a new mechanic then you need to educate yourself about your motor, get a genuine OMC manual for your motor.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,195
Re: starter

Hm-m-m. Pieces falling out of it huh? I do believe that is a permanent magnet starter and the magnets are shattered. That can happen by dropping it. I'm not going to get into the question "who dropped it". Or, something unkown happened to it to shatter them. Anyhoo, you need a new starter now.

FYI, by permanent magnets, I mean that it does not have field coils like old fashioned starters, but molded magnets. Much simpler, lots of power for its size, and uses a lot less electricity.
 

RandyJ

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Messages
808
Re: starter

jus' cuz sumpin's new doesn't make it an absolute garantee all 'em thangs is rat wif it. New cables, solenoids, etc can still have bad connections or be bad when purchased. But, I concur that it does sound like the starter is broke now and when you put on a new one you may still have to trouble shoot the wires/system. Best of luck!
 

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Re: starter

I dont mind getting a new mechanic. The mechanic isn't really the problem though. My mechanic told me to take it to have it rebuilt. So I took it to the starter repair shop and they are the ones that had the problems with it and when I got it back it didn't work and actually worked worse.

The parts that are failing out are off the frame itself in the inside. Its got chips on the inside of the frame itself.

I have an omc manual on hand and have been trouble shooting and the only thing at this point I can think of is that the starter just needs to be replaced. The scraping the side while it turns seems like that could be a problem with why its starting so slowly.
 

Fed

Commander
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
2,457
Re: starter

You've already got the end cap off so why don't you pull the armature out and clean out any bits & pieces then check the magnets for cracks or any big bits that may be broken off.
If it all looks good then put it back together and give it a try.
The parts that are failing out are off the frame itself in the inside. Its got chips on the inside of the frame itself.
Are these big pieces or tiny pieces, there's not a huge air gap between the armature & the magnets so it won't take much to cause a scraping noise, could be some tiny chips left in there that didn't scrape at the shop but have now worked their way around to cause the noise.
Check your manual, there's nothing in them really.
Don't forget you will need to cut out a little tool to put it back together.
This stuff is so simple it's hardly worth the time it takes to type it, that's why I said to give the shop a quick look at it.
 

Bill3434

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
398
Re: starter

Sounds like some of the things I went through earlier in the summer. I ended up doing the starter myself only had to replace the brushes and cleaned everything that looked like a corroded contact. I got it back together on the second try and its never worked better. Yours sounds like it might be toast though. If you have any skills I would tear it apart and see how it works that way if the next one should give you problems you can repair it yourself, save some money and headaches. I have a much older Johnson so most of my stuff is pretty simple. Of course, I spend a lot of time researching online and reading these forums. Saves a lot of money and lost time off the water.
 

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Re: starter

Well I guess the next question is then since I have a 9 pinion what starter do I need? I saw that ebay has them brand new on the buy it now for cheaper than on the normal websites like marineengine.com. I dont see any numbers on my starter or atleast I dont know where to look.

Any one know how to figure this out?

Thanks
 

fish2keel

Cadet
Joined
Sep 18, 2011
Messages
7
Re: starter

guys on the bottom of my starter end cap it says american bosch. Then it has a set of numbers. 1062923m030sm

Can you guys tell me how i find a replacement starter other than the ones on marineengine or what these numbers mean?

Thanks
 

Tim Frank

Vice Admiral
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
5,333
Re: starter

Well I guess the next question is then since I have a 9 pinion what starter do I need? I saw that ebay has them brand new on the buy it now for cheaper than on the normal websites like marineengine.com. I dont see any numbers on my starter or atleast I dont know where to look.

Any one know how to figure this out?

Thanks

:confused::confused:
Not sure I understand the problem.
If you need a new starter, and you are having trouble finding one, they are available from a dealer.
If you can't or won't buy from a dealer, or a marine outlet that actually knows what you need, and you are prepared to go hunting yourself, OMC bought the starter somewhere; if it is a Bosch, get in touch with Bosch and see if it is still available. If it was a "special" for OMC, then probably not.,,,,they would long since have got rid of any overrun.

If your questions is something else, I missed the point.
 
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