Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
I didn't think this would happen to me. I have been reading this forum and then recently went out and purchased a 1997 Chaparral 1930, with a Mercruiser 5.7, Alpha one gen 2 with 200 hours on the motor. The boat was in great shape with shiny fiberglass, clean and supple upholstery with no sun damage, and a clean engine. We paid $7000.00 for the boat with custom twin axle trailer. We knew of the importance to check the oil and we thought we did that.
The oil on the dipstick was clean as a whistle, however it appeared to be way overfilled! About 1 inch above the full line. We thought that someone had just overfilled it, WRONG! The motor started and ran fine when we tested it at the sellers driveway. We checked the oil again and it looked fine.
Well, the deal was made and we were anxious to get on the water. We were giving the motor a once over and noticed a new noise coming from the rear of the engine. We diagnosed it as a bad Gimble Bearing. Yep, we yanked the outdrive and noticed some rusty water in the drive bellows, however the gimble bearing was not rusty. So we changed the bearing and also replaced the water pump, shift shaft seal and gaskets, and put it back together.
During our further inspection, we noticed that the alternator was not charging. We yanked it and found it to be VERY rusty inside. It was so bad that the large red cable going to it had rusted and fallen off! We thought it would be a good idea to suck out some of the oil to get the level correct. I had a "oil boy" vacumme system that draws oil from the dipstick. As soon as we started sucking oil, out came the chocolate moca!!! Our hearts sank!! We felt cheated!! I have never heard this said on this forum before but lesson one is,
"YOU CANNOT JUDGE THE CONDITION OF THE OIL BY LOOKING AT THE DIPSTICK!!!"
So we drained the oil and changed the filter. We hooked up the rabbit ears and ran the engine. We ran it for about 2 hours. We would occasionally stop and check the oil level to see if it increased. It did not. My first question is

1. Is running the engine with rabbit ears, and checking the oil level a accurate test for water intrusion, or must the boat be tested in the water?

After further testing and inspection, we noticed that the outdrive tilt hydrulic pump reservoir was also contaminated with water???? It had evidence of overflowing and was full to the brim with moca colored gooey mess! This pump is located on deck level, not in the bilge. We started wondering if the boat had been submerged, or allowed to fill with water somehow? Wishfull thinking, but my second question is

2. Since there were no signs of rust inside the valve covers, and since the oil level did not change during our running tests, could this boat have taken on water by being submerged or flooded by rain? There were no visible "water lines" or stains that would confirm this. So far, the seller has refused to return our calls!

The starter motor/solenoid is acting up also,,,,probably rusty, but we have not inspected it yet.

We would love to think that we don't have a cracked block! What should be our next inspection proceedure? Any help would be appreciated!!

Chris
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

Hi Chris,


Our hearts sank!! We felt cheated!! I have never heard this said on this forum before but lesson one is,
"YOU CANNOT JUDGE THE CONDITION OF THE OIL BY LOOKING AT THE DIPSTICK!!!"


Well, we all sometimes learn things the hard way don't we?

Caveat Emptor


If it was on a trailer.....I am thinking that the boat filled up with water more than once.

Not having rust under the valve covers won't tell you much, if anything at all about cracks.......

You can confirm the block condition by either running and observing or pressure checking it...... I would run it on the lake. you cannot really load the engine on "muffs"

After you replace the alternator and starter (yes, either rebuild or replace it), I would just run it and see what happens.

Once it warms up, if there's a significant block crack in the lifter area, the oil level will rise.......Check the oil frequently, and don't get too far from shore (I would do it on a lake with other boaters around....or with a "kicker' on the back!)


Also, if the boat was used in salt, you should remove the risers and inspect them along with the riser/exhaust manifold gasket contact surfaces etc......(even if not used in salt,if they're original, I would look at them and replace the gaskets)


Good luck,


Rick
 

Juniinc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
221
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

U got hosed,,,
I'm thinking she has been submerged in the past, at least partially.
U will need a new starter soon.
When the drive was yanked out, drive bellows in OK shape?
If then most likely water leaked thru the hull,,,
Have U checked the drive oil condition?
Since U can't really run at high RPM on the muff,
I would test her at WOT in the water(fingers crossed).
Good luck.
 

roostonu

Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
26
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

U got hosed,,,
I'm thinking she has been submerged in the past, at least partially.
U will need a new starter soon.
When the drive was yanked out, drive bellows in OK shape?
If then most likely water leaked thru the hull,,,
Have U checked the drive oil condition?
Since U can't really run at high RPM on the muff,
I would test her at WOT in the water(fingers crossed).
Good luck.

Not hijacking here, I'm the other half of this boat. The drive bellows were in good shape and both ends were secure. The water that was in the bellows was very rusty. My thought was the water could have come from the hull side of the transom, which would also explain the bad gimble bearing. There is only 208 hours on this. It also came from the Southern Cal. area which had some major flooding this year. The back end of the boat looks like things could have been submerged but there is no evidence of moisture behind the dash. The alternator definetely looks like it was submerged and the starter is going bad so I suspect that when I pull it, it will look similar to the alternator. The water in the hydraulic system is also leaning me towards the boat full of water senario. Once we get the starting and charging systems up to snuff we will put it in the water.
 

Gary H NC

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
8,972
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

The bad starter,alt,and trim pump being full of water is a good sign the boat was filled with rain water.
Some idiot left the drain plug in...

Best case is the block is ok.
Running it 2 hours on the muffs and no water in the oil is a good sign.
The lake test will tell the rest of the story.

Really sucks someone would sell it like that!
 

Juniinc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
221
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

possibly got some unwanted mocha in your drive,,,
 

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

possibly got some unwanted mocha in your drive,,,


The drive oil was clean, although the resevoir was practically empty. It is located high up, so I doubt it would have been submerged unless the water was over the top of the spark arrestor! At least we were able to use information gained on this site for the purpose of removing the gimble bearing. I could see how it could be kind of a bhitch!
 

roostonu

Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
26
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

The bad starter,alt,and trim pump being full of water is a good sign the boat was filled with rain water.
Some idiot left the drain plug in...

Best case is the block is ok.
Running it 2 hours on the muffs and no water in the oil is a good sign.
The lake test will tell the rest of the story.

Really sucks someone would sell it like that!

We are definetely hoping for the best case scenario.

It does suck that it was sold like that, but we are to blame for not doing an on water test. If we had run it good, the milkshake probably would have shown up on the dipstick.

The good thing is we did get a heck of a deal on it (Now we know why). I have found a brand new bare block for $900 if it comes down to that and we would still be into it for less than it's worth.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

I would also replace the ujoints and pull the drive input yoke,inspect for yoke seal surface damage and replace the seal.
sinking on the trailer gets nasty.
 

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

I would also replace the ujoints and pull the drive input yoke,inspect for yoke seal surface damage and replace the seal.
sinking on the trailer gets nasty.

I noticed that the ujoints were rusty. They felt smooth in their movement however, with no tight spots or anything. The gimble bearing was shot, but not rusty at all. It had a grindy feeling like worn out bearing do. The rusty water in the drive bellows must have come from the rusty ujoint assembly.

Chris
 

roostonu

Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
26
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

I would also replace the ujoints and pull the drive input yoke,inspect for yoke seal surface damage and replace the seal.
sinking on the trailer gets nasty.

u-joints were fine and there was no water in the drive oil. The shaft looked good.
 

Juniinc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 16, 2010
Messages
221
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

lube those u-joints, see if U see any water coming out instead of old grease,,,
Be very careful of information given by Me,,,
 

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

lube those u-joints, see if U see any water coming out instead of old grease,,,
Be very careful of information given by Me,,,

I cleaned up the ujoints, but there was no provision for lubing. It looks like the zerk fittings sometimes seen on ujoints were plugged off.
 

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

Well, I yanked the starter motor on our engine. The honest seller had changed the starter solenoid and in the process, lost or threw away the main fuse that connected to the B+ terminal on the solenoid and also attached to the red wire running to the alternator. (He left the alternator wire just dangling, unconnected to anything!) :mad:
This is borderline criminal IMHO! Although the solenoid was new, the starter was dry and full of rust also. It did work however to some extent but emitted a strong burning smell, like burning brakes.

So, this was deliberate. It also shows what kind of care he gave this boat. I am still hoping that the block is not cracked! So far we have replaced the alternator, battery, outdrive parts, bellows etc... We are trying to get the boat reliable enough to take it for the lake test to determine whether we have a cracked block or not.

I wish there was some way to retaliate against the seller :mad:
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

I would just replace the u-joints if it were my boat. Definitely was submerged somehow. You may have to change the oil a few times to get the water out that seeped in through main oil seals.

I take great care of my boat and I once left the plug in and I had to replace my starter due to the water getting up to it. Sometimes things happen. Just be glad its not worse. You will get this boat running fine in no time and you will know the condition of everything you just replaced.
 

z1nonlyone

Seaman
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Messages
58
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

I would just replace the u-joints if it were my boat. Definitely was submerged somehow. You may have to change the oil a few times to get the water out that seeped in through main oil seals.

I take great care of my boat and I once left the plug in and I had to replace my starter due to the water getting up to it. Sometimes things happen. Just be glad its not worse. You will get this boat running fine in no time and you will know the condition of everything you just replaced.

You mention that water "seeped in through main oil seals",,,,is this possible? If water could seep in,,,,wouldn't oil seep out???
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,454
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

Most oil seals are designed to keep oil in, not water out, and definitely depends on the lip design of the oil seal. Also, the viscosity of water is a lot less than oil. It happened to me when I got oil up to my starter. The oil got some water in it. It only takes a slight amount of water to casue the emulsion to occur.

You will have the same concern with your drive. Since the bellows got full of water, some may have entered the drive. In the drive's case, you have the additional worry that the area of the drive shaft that contacts the seal got corroded which will damage the sealing surface.
 

roostonu

Cadet
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
26
Re: Well, add me to the chocolate moca list :(

We were just able to take it to the lake and run it under load. Everything went well and no water in the oil after 2.5 hours of driving. She ran flawlessly until the end when we spun the prop.
 
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