Coast Guard Approval process.

Uraijit

Banned
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
884
Anybody know the exact process for getting something Coast Guard Approved? I've recently started importing CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) conversion kits for cars, but I'd like to be able to sell and install them on boats.

I'm still really busy with the importing side of things, but in the next couple of months, I should be in a place where I can start concentrating on this aspect. Anybody know what exactly it will take?

Thanks.
 

haskindm

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
255
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

You should probably start out with NMMA Certification. Then they would probably help you obtain Coast Guard Approval if it is even needed for such a device. Go to http://www.nmma.org/certification/ for more information.
 
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QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

There are some CNG boats around. Disney uses them, and there is a Ferry in British Columbia (yes I know that's Canada) but there is some precedence . . . I totally agree on the safety aspects of Natural Gas (Methane) vs. Propane, but it is still contained in a a bilge and/or engine compartment, so blowers would still be part of the deal. There are also a bunch of LNG tankers, so the Coast Guard should be aware. FWIW I have seen Propane boats in the UK . . .

BTW, I have been selling CNG and LNG conversions for trucks and buses for 15 years. Good luck. Tough sell for a typical commuter. My best advice is concentrate on the biggest fuel users first. Who are you using for fuel? Where are you? Oh, oh, and you need a finance partner . . .
 

fdmsiv

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
283
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

I think its posted on the Coast Guard website, but you need to find the CFR. The is the list of stuff that has to be met in order to obtain USCG approval. The CFR is long, boring, arcane, long, boring, etc etc

My advise would be this, find a naval architect or boat builder that regularly deals with CFR and Coast Guard. They will know their way around the CFR and will be able to help you with the approval process.

You may even look to engine company and see what they think. Not caterpillar directly, but maybe a company that sells and installs cats or other manufactures.

Finally, I think there is some serious $$$$ involved, you may get a better idea by talking to a NA or boat builder.

Good luck!
 

fdmsiv

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
283
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

Forgot to add, the exact process is something like this:

You submit necessary drawings and reports to the coast guard

They review and will either approve or return drawings and reports with comments

You change drawings and reports to satisfy comments and resubmit

Continue above step until the coast guard is satisfied and approves it.

I am not sure if you need a licensed engineer, but you can find out from my advise in the above post.
 

papasage

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 12, 2003
Messages
785
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

Anybody know the exact process for getting something Coast Guard Approved? I've recently started importing CNG (Compressed Natural Gas) conversion kits for cars, but I'd like to be able to sell and install them on boats.

I'm still really busy with the importing side of things, but in the next couple of months, I should be in a place where I can start concentrating on this aspect. Anybody know what exactly it will take?

Thanks.

are you talking about running the motor on natural gas. it would work on 4 stroke and inbord . think it would be safer than reg. gas. a lot invermental safer .
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

Yes, natural gas can be safer. It has a much narrower window of combustible air fuel ratio than gasoline, safer; it has a higher auto ignition temperature, safer; it is lighter than air, safer; and it is stored at 3600 PSI, :eek: . . . OK forget that last one . . .

Also, they can actually be dirtier if it is low tech kit that is simply slapped on. The one major environmental issue for Al Gore following knuckleheads is that you add methane to your exhaust, which is a Greenhouse gas with a 28 times potential. That means each gram of methane in the exhaust is equal to 28 grams of CO2. However . . . CO2 goes down, so it can be better than gasoline. Buuuuut, total hydrocarbons and CO can go up . . . Not guaranteed to be cleaner is the point.

When used with Carbon Fiber tanks (the most expensive) it is heavier than gasoline due to tank weight. And it requires roughly 4 times as much space to store the same amount of energy. It can take a LOT longer to fill, unless you have a mega buck, mega compressor station ($1 Million +), or a lot of storage and a smaller compressor, (say $50K+), or a little personal compressor ($5K) that will fill 6 gasoline gallon equivalent (GGE) overnight . . .

It is much higher octane, say 135, so highly boosted turbocharged or supercharged variants and/or higher compression ratios are possible. We can use it in diesels due to this fact. Buuuuttttt, it takes up more room in the cylinder, so it displaces available air in a typical naturally aspirated gasoline engine. What that means is slightly less power if you simply slap a kit onto an existing gasoline engine . . .

Oh, oh, can work in two cycles as well. Must be oil injected.
 

jeeperman

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,513
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

And I bet finding a CNG filling station for a non-trailered boat is about as easy as finding a hydrogen filling station on land.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

You have to have your own station . . .
 

Uraijit

Banned
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
884
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

Obviously this system wouldn't be for everybody. As it now stands, you'd have to either trailer your boat to a station (which a LOT of folks already do anyway), or buy a private refueling appliance.

The storage and fueling issue is still a bit of a hurdle, but there's new technology coming out, called ANG (Adsorbed Natural Gas) storage, which allows the fuel to be stored at around 500 PSI. Because of this, the tanks no longer have to be cylindrical, and can be built in virtually ANY shape and size. And it will be a LOT more cost-effective to compress.

CNG is virtually ALWAYS cleaner than gasoline--especially on a boat. There is no Sheen, or water contamination from CNG. Natural Gas (ch4) is the SMALLEST and simplest hydrocarbon molecule, with only 1 Carbon, and 4 hydrogens, it burns cleaner than ANY other fuel could hope to (about 80%-99% cleaner than gasoline) The primary bi-products are Water and Co2. It's actually so clean burning, that you can run a CNG vehicle in an enclosed space (or on the water) without the danger of Carbon Monoxide poisoning...

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Oh, and lets not forget diesel!

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Oh, and don't forget, it's about 1/5-1/2 the cost of Gasoline (depending on where you live). ;)

I could go on for days about the benefits, but I'm not trying to sell them to anybody right now. Just trying to see what I have to do to get the Gubmint' to get out of the way, and let it happen.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Coast Guard Approval process.

I promise you, if not optimised, a simple retrofit can increase emissions on diesels or gasoline engines. Not trying to sell you either, but facts is facts . . . Both NOx, and believe it or not, even Particulates can go up with nat gas if not done properly. Emissions are not only controlled by the fuel used, there are issues related to ignition timing and oil control that can literally change when you burn a different fuel. This is one of the problems with bio-diesel: NOx goes up when burned in an otherwise stock diesel engine.

"In god we trust, all others show us your data" and I have data . . . ;)

I don't know how you'd get the Disney info, but all of their boats on the Jungle Cruise in Anaheim are CNG, so is the Columbia I believe, along with the Huck Finn boats. Our technology is on the parking lot trams . . .
 
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