Electricity to pump.

mscher

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Apr 21, 2004
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1,424
Trying to pump out a farm pond with no electricity nearby.

Right now I have a 100' 12ga extension cord and a 25' 14ga. cord

The pump is a 1/2HP, with 100' 1 1/4" discharge hose.

It is working but the pump, which his running continously, is running hot.

The first pump was a cheapie 1/16HP, ran for 5 days before it quit.

Are the pumps running hot because there is too much cord, or not heavy enough wire? Too much discharge hose? Shouldn't a sump pump be able to run continously, with plenty of cool water?

I'm sure I'm pushing things too hard with this, but my pond drain is plugged and I need something to get the level down, before i have lawn and septic problems.

Any input appreciated.
 

JB

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45,907
Re: Electricity to pump.

Is siphon not an option?
 

bandit86

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Re: Electricity to pump.

check with a volt meter the volage at the pump, if it's a cheapie cord you may have a lot of resistance in the line dropping the availible volts, at less volts it'll draw a lot more just to do the same work. is it a specific water pump or a sump pump? rated for contious duty?
 

jameskb2

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Re: Electricity to pump.

First, you need to know what amperage the pump motor requires. I'm going to assume that 1/2 horse 110v at 14 amps.

The 100' 12 gauge cord if quality can do that, but it's a stretch. The additional 25' of 14 gauge is not good. You have a total of 125' with three connections and there is quite a bit of loss from the plug to the pump.

You can make an inexpensive hard line that will handle a full 20 amps using 12 gauge romex wire. Cut it to the length you need and add high amp plugs to both ends. It's a pain in the butt to wind up and store but can make a great temp cord. We do this on job sites when having to run power farther than 150'. Running any motor under amperage (starved for electricity) will burn it up in short order.
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Electricity to pump.

First, you need to know what amperage the pump motor requires. I'm going to assume that 1/2 horse 110v at 14 amps.

The 100' 12 gauge cord if quality can do that, but it's a stretch. The additional 25' of 14 gauge is not good. You have a total of 125' with three connections and there is quite a bit of loss from the plug to the pump.

You can make an inexpensive hard line that will handle a full 20 amps using 12 gauge romex wire. Cut it to the length you need and add high amp plugs to both ends. It's a pain in the butt to wind up and store but can make a great temp cord. We do this on job sites when having to run power farther than 150'. Running any motor under amperage (starved for electricity) will burn it up in short order.


This is exactly correct, and exactly wrong at the same time. This is prohibited by code and is not the safest thing to do.

That being said and my job as the safety police is over- James is right on. I have done this quite a bit and still have a cord made up thats about 150' long of #12. This will fix your problem.
 

bruceb58

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30,454
Re: Electricity to pump.

This is exactly correct, and exactly wrong at the same time. This is prohibited by code and is not the safest thing to do.

That being said and my job as the safety police is over- James is right on. I have done this quite a bit and still have a cord made up thats about 150' long of #12. This will fix your problem.
Curious on how this is prohibited by code. Is there code for an extension cord?
 

JB

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Re: Electricity to pump.

Sounds like a gas powered pump would make that a lot simpler and pump more water faster.

Most rental shops have them up to 5-10HP.
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Electricity to pump.

Yes there is Bruce. But more specifically the wire you will buy at Home Cheapo or Lower than the others till we put them out of business is usually gonna be NM. This wire is not made for ground contact or sunlight. They also have UF (gray) which is buryable (sp?) and is usually sunlight resstant. Neith er is designed to be run on top of the ground where it would be subjected to traffic. You'll find one of these (and usually several) on every jobsite that is not in an area that has compliance/code checks. You will just as often find them in the areas that do too. For $75.00 I can build you one heck of a good cord like James is talking about that would cost at least $200 for a manufactored one. It ain't right but it works damn good, just remember that you must accept responsibility for yourself. I'd follow James advice if I was him.

Q. What about "homemade" extension cords assembled with a metal box on the load end in place of a cord connector?

A. This is a violation because the assembly would not be listed (NEC 110-2) nor installed properly (NEC 110-3b). Other violations would include NEC 300-11, 370-13.


2005 NEC??
320.12 Uses Not Permitted.
Type AC cable shall not be used as follows:
(1) Where subject to physical damage

The rules for AC, MC, and NM-B are almost the same - if subject to damage you have to use conduit, and it can't be Sch. 40 PVC, either.
 

jameskb2

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Re: Electricity to pump.

You're right of course.

We ARE talking about a temporary solution though. I'd never run NM or UF on the ground for a permanent line.

Yes, NM will take damage quickly. It's vinyl wrap over the insulated wire which in itself can be cut to open the conductor to contact easily.

I've used both NM and UF for job site work without incident. I do have two 50' ten gauge extension cords, and a bunch of 12 gauge extension cords in various lengths. (25', 50', 100') Yellow Jacket is my preferred brand. :)

You CAN buy extension cord rated wire off the spool. I made a woman two 75' lengths of 10 gauge cord with 20 amp plugs male and a dual duplex receptacle on the female side. (four way plug) She did catering work and needed something to handle the hot plates and coffee pots. She said it worked great, although she tended to blow the breaker!

So, if this was an annual thing, something I had to do but didn't want to run a hard line, I'd buy or build a 10 gauge extension cord with 20 amp plugs on each end. Yellow would be the preferred color....;) The type NM or UF is cheaper for a temp, single use situation.
 

Kenneth Brown

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Feb 3, 2003
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3,481
Re: Electricity to pump.

Same boat here James. I'd lay it on the ground and never think twice about it for a temp solution. When we built our house I was the electrician and plumber. Knowing just enough about it to shock the chit out of myself I done lots of studying. My wife bought me a book over each for my birthday. My dad has taken several classes on electrical and I was able to get his books from him. Then I had the internet which turned out to be one of my greatest freinds and worst enemies at the same time. People who have no clue will tell you to do stuff. Others will have a clue and know it can be done safely (I put both of us in that catagory). Then theres the professionals that try to dazzle you with BS and you walk away dumber than when you started. Throughout my entire house and garage I had 3 total problems. My HVAC man told me 8 gauge was sufficent with a 40 amp breaker on my 10K heater. Instead of doing the calcs myself I listened to him. Theoreticly it pulls 41.6 amps which is ok but he didn't factor in the blower motor. I now have 6 gauge on a 50 amp (It'll handle 60 amp but figured the lower breaker was safer if I didn't need the extra 10 amps). I had one junction box in the attic that didn't get a good connection and a light didn't work, no real problem there. And at last I had a short in the wiring for my dryer. I had used 10 gauge for my temp plugs while building and reused it to run the dryer. There was a chaffed spot where the conduit had rubbed it. It shorted at this spot. Luckily it was in the open under the house and I had left some slack. I was able to make a junction box and fix the damage.

As I said before I'd do your fix in a heartbeat.
 

mscher

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Apr 21, 2004
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1,424
Re: Electricity to pump.

Thanks for the input everyone.

The pond is down about 2" and the pump motor seems to be running cooler.

When it get low enough ( probably aonther 4-5"), I'll dig up the drain, which drains to a field tile. It's a real cheezy setup, by the former owner, with PVC angling at 90 and then to 45 degrees, into a cast iron pipe, then into a clay tile.

I need the excercise, so I'll dig it with a shovel. Hopefully this will be the last time.
 
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