Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Alpha 1 gen 2
OD732853
I bought a quicksilver wp kit through iboats (kit number 47-43026Q-06). The kit contains some o rings, I'm not sure where they go. # 1 in the pic is the water pump face seal setting tool #2 contains the quad ring (sealing the oil passage between upper and lower), #3 is the water pump face seal. Where do the two orange ones go (#4). I'm going to guess they go inside the water pump tube (shown in the 2nd to last pic)?

Following along with the mercruiser service manual 14 page 3b-76 I put the impeller into the housing and rotate the shaft clockwise to fit the impeller in. Last pic, this is the right direction?


Assuming this is all correct, I'm not on hold again until Monday so can find some Perfect Seal.

Ryan

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Title should read make not nake...

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Yes, it is the right direction, and no, you don't need perfect seal on the gasklet. The gasket has changed since the manual was written.

See page 3B-77 for face seal instructions.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Thanks Don

The note in the manual states: "Apply Quicksilver Perfect Seal to all four (4) screw threads before installation" referring to the wp housing bolts. Still needed here or not?



Ryan

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

G1K said:

Thanks Don

The note in the manual states: "Apply Quicksilver Perfect Seal to all four (4) screw threads before installation" referring to the wp housing bolts. Still needed here or not?



Ryan

Click to expand...

Yes, use it, it keeps the Stainless bolts fro siezing into the aluminum housing, and they do sieze up easily. Especially in salt water.
You can use Permatex aviation form a gasket #3 in place of the Perfect seal, it does exactly the same thing, and is available at most auto parts stores.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

any good water proof grease or a NICKEL based anti-sieze will work. technically you should have the water pump housing alignment pins.
I usually just try to insure the shaft is centered in the housing opening.
and just dont forget that quad ring

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

I can turn down some alignment pins today after find someone who has the permatex. The diameter of alignment pins are probably the min diameter of the threaded bolts that hold the pump housing on, so that should be no big deal.

Ryan

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

beats me, I have a set but rarely use them. its to simple just to hold the pump centered just before tightening the screws. if you do regular maint the bolts will work fine with water proof grease.
but occasionally I get the customer who comes in overheating and bragging that for 10 years its never given a problem.
those are the same ones that whine about a 7 hour labor bill for the pump change.
had one argue with me cause the flat rate was about an hour and I nailed him for 7.
I should have charged him for the oxy/acetelyne.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

You don't have to go to all the work to "Turn down" those pins, get a couple of long bolts with the correct thread (I forget what the size is) and cut the heads off. Bingo, alignment pins.

I should have charged him for the oxy/acetelyne.

Click to expand...

A needed tool for any salt water marine tech. 7 hours isn't to bad when salt water drives haven't been apart for 10 years.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

I think the original thread size is 6mmx1.0mm.
however there are quite a few out there that are now 1/4x20 .
salt tends to lock them in rather tight.
there again the oxy wrench can work wonders.
like I say, its just as easy to hold the pump housing centered and tighten the housing bolts.
only time I use my pins is when my artheritis wont allow me to hold the housing.
and most those days I aint going to work anyway

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

rodbolt said:

.
like I say, its just as easy to hold the pump housing centered and tighten the housing bolts.
only time I use my pins is when my artheritis wont allow me to hold the housing.
and most those days I aint going to work anyway

Click to expand...

The only problem I see with that is the shaft can move a bit. I think the pins may be the only way to center it properly? I got that done, used Don's method with some old bolts with no head.

When reassembling I noticed the oil seal (#5 on the attached pic) was FUBAR (confirmed with pressure test, leaking there). To change this out requires removing the bearing cup if I understand the manual correctly. I was reading through it and I don't have the necessary tools (or time to engineer them) to make sure the gear spacing is correct on reassembly, so I think it's time to deliver the unit to a dealer for the seal change (and any others that may be worn)

Anyone have an idea on what it will cost for disassembly, replace seal (maybe yoke seal also), prop shaft seal and reassembly?

Ryan

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

If you don't loose any shims, you shouldn't need all those special tools. You will have to remove the input shaft and carrier assemby, then remove the top cap and lift the gear out. Replace the seals and put it back together with new gaskets and orings.

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Don,
Remove the drive shaft (using the special tool), then remove the driven gear assembly. Then I would use a bearing puller to pull the race out (shims will be under the race), flip the drive housing over and push the oil seal out. Add new seal, install shims, seat race and I'm good to go with with that?

How much would you (or your shop) charge to do that job assuming there is no gotchas (no frozen bolts, bent shafts etc)?

Ryan

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Re: Want to make sure I'm doing the water pump correct

You need the tool to remove and reinstall and torque the bearing carrier retainer nut, about 60 to 70 bucks. You don't have to pull bearing races or anything.
You need to look at and understand what the service manual is saying. To replace those seals you do not have to pull any bearing races.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Don,
Thanks for the patience so far.

I am trying to understand. Manual 14 section 3a, page 12 (1st pic). I interpreted this as meaning it is necessary to remove the race to change the seal. Then on page 14, the picture shows that the seals are being driven towards the top of the housing.

What you're saying is I do not have to remove the race to get those seals out, I can drive them out the same way as in the manual, or do I have to pull them out towards the bottom?

I do have the tool to remove the bearing carrier retainer nut


Thanks for the help so far. I'm glad I'm starting this now rather than waiting until good weather.

Ryan

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Guess you will have to look and see. The OD of the seals you want to replace is a lot smaller than the smallest ID of the bearing race.
It's not something explained in the manual. Since the manuals are designed for a Merc tech that has gone to the schools. There isn't a manual anywhere that wil give you an exact step by step on every possible seal change. The OEM manual shows rebuilding the drive, in order of rebuilding the complete drive. Not just seal changes.

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Spoke to a few different service centers today, looks like about $400 job to reseal the upper if I need the yoke and seal. If not, $250-300.

From an earlier post http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=234203 found some oily substance in the bellows. Based on the consistency and color of this I believe it to be excess u-joint grease and not gear oil that made it past the yoke seal. I could be wrong on this, I have not taken the drive shaft out yet.

I pressure tested the lower half, it held 15 psi. The upper has a bad seal on the vertical drive shaft at a minimum, part of the seal is torn. I verified with a pressure test on the full assembly, it leaks the most at that seal. Because of he severity of this leak I was unable to determine if it leaked anywhere else.

I'm going to talk with a few more people and see if anyone I know has done this or has a recommended shop. My concern is making sure the gears are properly set and aligned on reassembly, maybe not a concern if the yoke doesn't have to come apart. I'd also need to be able to set the rolling torque, which by the manual seems relatively easy, but I'd prefer to have some in-person assistance from someone who has done this before.

I'll post up what I find out if I bring it to the dealership, or if I decide to do it myself...

Ryan

Re: Want to nake sure I'm doing the water pump correct

Update:
Just order the upper seal kit and I'm going to attempt to get everything done my self. I also plan to but the two special tools to check the gear heights when I get to that part. I figure for the cost of the tools, even if my gears don;t change position relative to eachother, it's piece of mind and money well spent.

I made the tool for removing the u-joint and yoke assembly from the housing, and I have a dial torque wrench that accuratly (just calibrated) reads 3-15 in-lbs.

Hopefully the seal change goes smoothly, and that fixes the air leaks.

I'll put up some pics as I progress through the project.

Ryan