air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

bwalker: Thats why Lawnboy, Toro, etc spec TCW3 oils in their aircooled engines. With out variations in throttle and load mettalic ash buildup becomes a real problem.
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bwalker, I dont know what to think of this ... I own a lawnboy mower and it MUST use an air-cooled 2 cycle oil. I used Castrol tc-w3 oil for my Johnson outboard for a while and it said right on the can (tc-w3) NOT to use that oil if the engine is air-cooled. I have also been warned by our local lawnboy dealer that the usage of the dual purpose oils such as Quicksilver and Wallmart 2000 is not recommended ....

cheers ... (again ... nice fish)

Your Lawnboy dealer is a moron.
Look in your LB owners manual its says very clearly to use a NMMA TCW3 oil at a 32:1 ratio.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

bwalker, you need to lay-off the trashing of everything anyone says....
My family business involves Kohler, Tec., Briggs, sachs-dolmer, Robins and Honda. NONE, and I mean NONE of these recommend TC-W3 oil..infact they all recommend against oil for water-cooled engines. We also sell Lawnboy 2-stroke lube...no, it's not TC-W3 rated.
Briggs makes a 2-stroke now for trimmers, etc, and Tecumseh has made 2-strokes for an eternity. I make every up-date and talk with the factory on a weekly basis, and of course we recieve all service bullitens as they come out....never has there been any mention of TC-W3 for any of the 2-strokes, and none of the manufacture's oils we sell for these have any TC-W3 rating.
In fact, I'll bring home all the specs and print them off and post'em if you think you know other-wise.
And, I have to ask, if you really found a manual that says use an NMMA TC-W3 oil, howcome lawnboy's own oil is not TC-W rated????

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Read a lawnboy or Toro owners manual. It clearly states to use a NMMA tcw3 oil at a 32:1 ration for lawnboys and a 50:1 ratio for Toro's. Nothing more needs to be said on this as it is fact.
You should know better being a dealer.
Do I need to post a copy of the owners manual in PDF format or are you going to just admit your wrong?

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Not to interupt the BWalker slamfest, but in the interest of sound technical discussion......



The reason that Lawnboys and Toros require TCW3(ashless) oils is because they are under constant throttle and load. A two cycle when operated like this on aircooled oils (low ash oils) has problems with sulfated ash buildup on the combustion chamber, piston crown and the sparkplug. This can lead to pre ignition and plug fouling. This is also why outboards(and air planes, locomotives, etc) use ashless oils.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Yea, I'm going to call your bluff on that one.......I find nothing in our service info that indicates TC-W3 in any lawnmower engine that we service or sell, and do you have any Idea how many different engine manufacturers Toro uses? If they have one out that requires TC-W3, they haven't told us yet....you didn't answer my question about the lawnboy oil...why is it NOT TC-W3 rated?

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Check out the Lawn Boy Duraforce/ Toro R-Tek engine service manual. On page number two it states under the reccomended lubricant type heading: Lawn boy generation 2 or NMMA TCW3 at a 32:1 ratio. On the same page and heading for the Toro R-Tek its states Toro Oil or NMMA TCW3 at 50:1.
This manula can be downloaded for free form Toro or Lawnboys website.
Lawn boy oil is not TCW3 certified because it doesnt need to be. Why would lawnboy pay the licensing fee when tis not needed? It is a ashless, tcw3 type oil and is made by Citgo.
As for Toro selling differant brands engines. Thats very true, thats why I orignally said TORO SNOWBLOWERS. Toro snowblowers use the same basic engine as a Lawnboy, hence the service manual is identical.
I might also add Toro sold a Suzuki built engine in their proline 21" mowers that also speced Toro oil, which is ashless, tcw3 type oil.
Now, after you dounload the manual i expect a full appology.o

 

[walleyehed]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

OK, I'm sorry, I was wrong...
You did not specify a "recommended alternative" which is what the TC-W3 is....an alternative. If that makes me wrong, then yes, I'm wrong.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Thank you.

 

[pecheux]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

bwalker: if my lawnboy dealer is a moron, then what names do we call the guys from Castol who have specific oil for outboard motors and ANOTHER bottled oil for 2 cycle air cooled engines.

Says so right on the bottles ...

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

bwalker: if my lawnboy dealer is a moron, then what names do we call the guys from Castol who have specific oil for outboard motors and ANOTHER bottled oil for 2 cycle air cooled engines.

Says so right on the bottles ...

Lawnboy reccomends the use of TCW3 ashless type oils. End of story. I have explained why they do this, but obviously it hasnt been comprehended by you.:$

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

FWIW most TCW3, non OEM oils are labeled as being sutable for use in aircooled applications which call for the use of a TCW3 oil.

 

[pecheux]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

BWalker : hey wait a minute 'End of story' You ve been strucked by the thruth of what ??

I questioned Castrol recommendations. Go to Walmart hold a a bottle of Castrol outboard oil in you hands ... and read what is written on it about using that oil in an air cooled engine ... then get back to me to let me know what you have read.

By the way my moron Lawboy and Merc dealer was dealing with oil and motors about 20 years prior to you breast feeding ... and so were many other mature people on this board ... so please ease up with calling everybody names will you.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Lawnboy says to use a TCW3 oil. This is fact and can not be refuted.
Your dealer is flat out wrong if he is saying otherwise.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

http://www.havoline.com/products/la/motoroil_tcw3.html

oo

 

[pecheux]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

BythebookWalker writes: Lawnboy says to use a TCW3 oil. This is fact and can not be refuted.
Your dealer is flat out wrong if he is saying otherwise.
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Tc-w3 is an alternative ... not recommendation. Just like if a small aircraft pilot runs out of gas and land in a field it is ok to use auto gas to get out of trouble ... but aircraft gas is WHAT should be used.

We are debating what is best for engines ... not who's right ... or absolutly right ... of by the thruth possessed.
You are obviously smart and knowledgeble for your age Ben, Keep an open mind ... there will be a lot more coming in your way in the next 25 years or so .... lol

cheers.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

Alternative my arse. It says very plainly to use Lawnboy gen 2 oil OR a NMMA TCW3 oil, just as Yamaha says to use Yamalube 2M OR A TCW3 oil. If A Lawnboy required a air cooled oil it would say so as most out door power equipment manuals do.
Lawnboy Generation 2 oil is a ashless,TCW3(albeit non certified for obvious reasons) type oil that is almost identical in formulation to Citgo TCW3 oil as Citgo produces both.
Further more there is a good reason why contant throttle and load engines need to use ashless oils regardless of cooling sytem.
Walleyhead was a big enough man to admit he was incorrect. Why cant you except the fact that your mistaken and that your dealer is ignorant in this regard?

 

[walleyehed]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

I just got off of the phone with the Technical department at Lawnboy... They DO NOT recommend synthetic oil for break-in, period...In fact, they highly recommend AGAINST it, but said it was fine to run after a "reasonable" amount of break-in time...
They DID confirm TC-W3 oil "can" be used, if their "regular" Lawnboy oil cannot be obtained.
They also confirmed that none of their manuals recommend TC-W3 as the first choice of oil.
So, after talking with their tech department, I have found that what I originally stated is true...no wive's tales, no bogus info, just solid truth and fact.
1-800-LB-MOWER.

EDIT; After reading your post above, BW, I have to say, you do realize our Aircraft piston engine, AIR-COOLED engine oil is ASHLESS dispersant oil. I think there is some confusion as to what ashless oil is....and is typically used in air-cooled engines.
It is my understanding, from talking with AirBP, that automotive oils, and 2-stroke outboard oils have more ash content-however that works-and do not run cleanly in air-cooled engines.
I spent a few days talking with some manufacturers of engines, and a bit of time talking with the oil companies I could actually contact, and asked some questions. Most all of the answers I got have been the same as I have found to be true over the last 30+ years involvement in this business.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

I just got off of the phone with the Technical department at Lawnboy... They DO NOT recommend synthetic oil for break-in, period...In fact, they highly recommend AGAINST it, but said it was fine to run after a "reasonable" amount of break-in time...
They DID confirm TC-W3 oil "can" be used, if their "regular" Lawnboy oil cannot be obtained.
They also confirmed that none of their manuals recommend TC-W3 as the first choice of oil.
So, after talking with their tech department, I have found that what I originally stated is true...no wive's tales, no bogus info, just solid truth and fact.
1-800-LB-MOWER.

EDIT; After reading your post above, BW, I have to say, you do realize our Aircraft piston engine, AIR-COOLED engine oil is ASHLESS dispersant oil. I think there is some confusion as to what ashless oil is....and is typically used in air-cooled engines.
It is my understanding, from talking with AirBP, that automotive oils, and 2-stroke outboard oils have more ash content-however that works-and do not run cleanly in air-cooled engines.
I spent a few days talking with some manufacturers of engines, and a bit of time talking with the oil companies I could actually contact, and asked some questions. Most all of the answers I got have been the same as I have found to be true over the last 30+ years involvement in this business.

I never said LB reccomended to use synthetics for break in. However, in Lawnboy owners manuals and service manuals there is nothign in writting prohibiting it so I submit to you if it was a huge issue why no mention of it?
Aircraft oils are ashless for the same reason the outboard oils, loccomotive oils, and other constant throttle/load engine oils are ashless. That is to prevent pre ignition causing , plug fouling sulfated ash build up in the combustion chamber and has nothing to do with the type of cooling system.

 

[Bwalker]

Re: air cooled 2 stroke oil reccomendation

BTW I am not sure what oil companies your talking to but whoever told you that outboard oils are high in ash should not have a job. As a requirment of TCW3 they must be ashless.
Air cooled outdoor power equipment(saws, weed whips,etc) oils for engines speccing a ISO EGD type oil MUST be low ash oils.
Automotive engines have a limit on ash thats many times higher than any two cycle. About 1000PPM.
Diesel engine oils untill recently had no cap on ash %.
The so called tech lines at major companies are much like "tech support for Dell. Not reliable and the people staffing such lines in most cases have no knowledge beyond the manual given to them.