85 force will not pump water

[my1stboat1]

can you guys help me please.... My 1988 force 85 hp will not cool or pump water through engine... Replace t stat... removed the lower unit and inspected impeller looked fine but replace anyway... removed lower cover under the water pump housing to check for a obstruction... pumped water from the top of the lower unit and water came out from the intake on both sides of the lower unit without obstruction... What am i missing... Put the outdrive in a tank of water up to and above the water line... Engine gets hot within 2 minutes... The over heat alarm isnt going off but the block gets very hot and theres no water coming out of the telltail or 2 exhaust ports on back of leg.... im really getting fustrated and not sure what the problem is or even where to look at this point... ps if i connect a water hose directly to the inlet tube on the engine, The engine cools down fine and water comes out of the telltail and exhaust ports... Boats been great all season but whats going on here...


thanks
Mike C

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

When you checked the impeller, did the stainless steel sleeve inside of the water pump housing look normal? If you spin this then you will not pump water. Also try pulling out the thermostat and running without it. Maybe it is not opening up to cool the motor.

I would check your temp sending unit and buzzer to make sure they are functioning correctly. To test the temp buzzer, ground the orange wire coming from the temp sending unit to the block then turn your key on, this will cause the buzzer to activate, if not your buzzer may be bad.

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

what sleeve are u referring too the sleeve inside the impelleron my boat the impeller sits inside a housing that hAS a key way mounted on the shaft

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

Because connecting a hose directly to the inlet tube circulates water throughout the engine, I think there is something wrong with the pump or pre-pump. ( BTW, that was a great diognostic test putting a hose right on the inlet tube.)

Take the lower unit off again. Check the following:

- Is the key still holding the impeller to the shaft, or can the impeller turn free of the shaft? No key, no pumping water.

- There is a small hole (about 1/32- 1/16") in the top of the pump cover. This lets air out when the pump is submerged so it will prime with water. Be sure this hole is clear or the pump may just be spinning air.

- With the pump body off, put muffs on the lower unit, and see if there is a good flow of water out the base of the pump. Could be obstruction on the intake.

- Put something on the inlet tube as a marker (tooth paste, peanut butter, grease, etc) . Just smear a little bit on the end of the inlet tube. Then fit the lower unit on, attach with two or 4 bolts to ensure its fully on, then disassemble and see if the marker has transferred to the pump outlet. They may not be connecting, and water is just leaking out of the connection, and not able to build enough pressure to fill the engine block.

If water is leaking out the inlet/pump connection, it could be that the inlet tube got bent or pushed up so it is not connecting.

BTW, when connecting the lower unit, I put some anti-seize on the inlet tube to prevent it from corroding onto the pump body (even though its plastic). Have seen a member here have the inlet tube pull out of the power head because it was stuck in the pump.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

mark, THanks for the reply i will get right on that... I know the impeller keyway is there not sure of the possible blocked hole on the pump body.. what is this PRE PUMP your referring to ..... and hooking the water hose directly to the inlet tube a BAD IDEA ?? i thought maybe i could do that to eliminate the possible problem of the t state head or a cool problem with the engine itself

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

what sleeve are u referring too the sleeve inside the impelleron my boat the impeller sits inside a housing that hAS a key way mounted on the shaft

There is a stainless steel cup inside of the water pump housing. On mine, this cup spun and the pump stopped pumping. There is a little slot on the top of the water pump housing and a flange on the steel cup. The flange must be in the slot. On mine the flange bent and spun the cup. The shaft hole is slightly off center of the pump impeller so it can create suction. When the cup spun the offset was lost therefore the pumping action was lost. I removed the damaged cup and installed the one I had from a previous pump. It pumps fine now.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

mark, THanks for the reply i will get right on that... I know the impeller keyway is there not sure of the possible blocked hole on the pump body.. what is this PRE PUMP your referring to ..... and hooking the water hose directly to the inlet tube a BAD IDEA ?? i thought maybe i could do that to eliminate the possible problem of the t state head or a cool problem with the engine itself

I meant the problem was either with the pump or the problem was before the pump, as in clogged intake.

I think connecting the hose to the input tube was a great idea! That simple test showed that the whole power head and thermostat were allowing water to circulate. Which lead me to suggest the possible problems with the pump, connection to the intake tube or clogged intake.

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

There is a stainless steel cup inside of the water pump housing. On mine, this cup spun and the pump stopped pumping. There is a little slot on the top of the water pump housing and a flange on the steel cup. The flange must be in the slot. On mine the flange bent and spun the cup. The shaft hole is slightly off center of the pump impeller so it can create suction. When the cup spun the offset was lost therefore the pumping action was lost. I removed the damaged cup and installed the one I had from a previous pump. It pumps fine now.

Is that on the 85 hp? What year Force do you have? I just ask because mine is not like that in the 1985 model.

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

the boats an 1988 and the engine is a 85 hp force 856x8a

 

[Swe-Bayliner-89]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

Also, if the tank is small that might actually be the cause.
Had a similar overheat problem and an old boat mechanic told me to go try it in the sea instead.
You never know...

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

His pump doesn't have the stainless insert.It's made of aluminum or pot metal.
Does the stainless wear plate have grooves in it or is the pump housing real groovy(sorry).Post pics.Possible the impeller is bad,even though it's new.
The keyway might have slipped.J

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

checked the air bleed hole in housing.. ok.... checked the housing for cracks ok... inspect the steel plate under the impeller was grooved ... Dont know what else to do... Ordered an entire water pump kit with housing gaskets plate and impeller.. if this doesnt fix this problem im going to burn the boat in the backyard... LOL..

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

It may just be that nothing is actually wrong! Those Force engines had a MASSIVE water intake passage--the whole back of the leg-- holds about a quart of water. Very often because the muffs fit around the curve of the gearcase torpedo, they don't seal well. The pump will not prime when on muffs unless you turn up the hose pressure and clamp the muffs tightly against the housing. Water needs to spraying out around the muffs all over the place to get enough pressure to raise that column of water and to get the pump to prime. With the boat at rest in the water, the lower unit sits with the pump below water level and it will prime quickly. once primed it will continue to pump--but not well on the muffs.

Improved plastic body water pumps made By Mercury around 1990 had stainless steel cup inserts which were kept from spinning in the plastic housing by a bent metal tab. These pumps are NOT interchangeable with earlier designs, although the complete lower units and drive shaft assemblies (two piece drive shaft) are swappable to earlier engines

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

frank your theory is greatly appreciated.. But ive always run the boat on land before putting it in the water and always have water pump out of the tell tail. Both on the Muffs.. and in a huge stainless steel tank that was built by a buddy of mine and the entire lower unit sits submersed in water and still not flow... The only think im confused about is what else it could be.. Ive been doing nothing but dumping money into this boat since i boat it 3 months ago... Seems the previous owner did nothing and im doing all of it.. I wouldnt care so much about putting money into the boat. I think its worth it and really enjoyable when its running.. But ive only been out on the boat a handful of times and ive dumped 2000 in repairs already.. WHENS IT STOP ... I know what boat stands for and yada yada but can i atleast enjoy it a bit before something else goes on it.. damn

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

Did you check that the pump is sealing against the input tube? Its not too hard to bend the tube and the pump is just shooting water inside the leg. The water will drain out holes just below the pump itself.

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

im interested in knowing something... When you remove the impeller housing theres another cover plate that the driveshaft passes through and the shift link arm passes through.. On the front half of that cover plate theres a triangular o ring to keep water from mixing in the lower unit oil.. In the middle of that plate theres a round o ring to also keep from contaminating the main bearing on that back half of that cover plate theres no gasket or oring.. Should this part get siliconed to the lower unit or is this suppose to not get a gasket.. I looked on IBOATS diagram and it doesnt show a gasket there...

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

Pics,please.J

 

[my1stboat1]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

jerry can i send you pictures to your email.. I dont know how to put pictures on this site tells me i cant

 

[Mark42]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

im interested in knowing something... When you remove the impeller housing theres another cover plate that the driveshaft passes through and the shift link arm passes through.. On the front half of that cover plate theres a triangular o ring to keep water from mixing in the lower unit oil.. In the middle of that plate theres a round o ring to also keep from contaminating the main bearing on that back half of that cover plate theres no gasket or oring.. Should this part get siliconed to the lower unit or is this suppose to not get a gasket.. I looked on IBOATS diagram and it doesnt show a gasket there...

Basic rule of thumb, never use silicone on any part of a boat or outboard. There are special sealants that cover a wide range of applications. The most popular being by 3M and Boatlife.

Did you pull the gear to check the water tube connection?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 85 force will not pump water

The front end does indeed have an O ring seal and a shift rod seal to keep water out of the internal lower unit. The back end of the cover (behind the water pump) seals the top of the water intake passage. There is no seal on it. I have seen some that were schmutzed up with blue silicone rtv, but that's not factory. However, since you are having trouble priming the pump, couldn't hurt to spread some on that joint.

The other thing I would check is the condition of the torpedo shaped plate UNDER the stainless plate AND the gasket there. If the walls are corroded and/or the gasket is broken, this will allow water to short circuit from the output side of the pump to the inlet, severely reducing efficiency.