How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

[TOHATSU GURU]

This is a repeat of this question from two and a half years ago(see the link below). Well how do we all feel now and what are the predictions for next year?

Just for giggles....How bad was last year and what do you see for this year?


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=232707

 

[KeyWestSkipper]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

Well one new variable is the BP spill. I've been wondering what kind of impact the BP spill will have on the marine/boating industry. The gulf coast is a hyoooooge market for them. There's a short term need for craft and marine services, great, but the longer term picture with fishing grounds either deemed off-limts by the law or ruined by chemicals.....probably going to be another body blow to the industry.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

dunno
I just get busier and busier every year.
I cant wait for e20 and e25 fuels .

 

[restornator]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

the Gulf Coast is a blip on the radar for the industry. The Great Lakes region is where the money is being made.

 

[5150abf]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

As far as builders I understand the pontoon segment is doing really well while most others segments are still struggling.

We have been working 6 days a week since Thanksgiving at Bennington, slowing down a bit now for model change but I understand we are right back at it in August with the new models.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

We're in SW Fla and are buried with work, nothing to do with the "spill". If anybody knows of a tech looking for work we could use a couple........

 

[ondarvr]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

The new boat market in my part of North America is still very slow. Many builders have gone out of business over the last year, others have moved production to other plants within the same corporate family, or even to competitors.

Some segments of the industry are doing a little better than others, aluminum appears to be doing better than glass.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

our new boat and motor sales are kinda flat.
our service has almost doubled.
DHadley
if you know of any good techs needig work on the NC coast send them our way.
we are down to 3 techs and its killing me.
finding good trained techs in this industry is tough. we have hired and fired all three MMI grads cause they simply could not perform unsupervised.
like I told them,by the time you have the experience and the knowledge your only wish is to retire.

 

[Brewman61]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

Sounds like used boats are moving okay, and service is very busy- but new sales are off, at least according to a couple places around here.
I guess that kinda makes sense- loans are harder to get, people are strapped, companies aren't hiring back- they're putting on more temp workers cause their afraid to hire employees yet.
This all impacts demand for new boats.
This is the first year in the past 5 or more that there were available slips where I keep my boat at the beginning of the season. My buddy got one just for asking. Prior to this year, there was a pretty long waiting list.
It all impacts those who manufacture boats and motors.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

I tried to get doorprizes for the Florida get together. i only recieved 20 hats from Bayliner, and 3 Hats from Gheenoe.

the rest of the industry, did not respond.

My service business, is over the top, full house and long waiting list.

Thank God, I found Branden. he had never touched an outboard, 6 months ago. now a super tech, with diagnosis, and solutions. that has a lot to say for a 19 year old who wanted to learn.

 

[gss036]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

You would never know that there was a problem if you drive through out marinas and launch area on the weekends. You could not find room to park a truck and trailer last weekend when crab season started. One thing I did notice was the great "absence" of new boats. That must be the reason for the jump in repairs, everyone is hanging onto the old boats and why not as long as you have a reliable engine to get you out and back.
Salmon fishing is really slow this time of year but people still enjoy the water.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

our new boat and motor sales are kinda flat.
our service has almost doubled.
DHadley
if you know of any good techs needig work on the NC coast send them our way.
we are down to 3 techs and its killing me.
finding good trained techs in this industry is tough. we have hired and fired all three MMI grads cause they simply could not perform unsupervised.
like I told them,by the time you have the experience and the knowledge your only wish is to retire.

Yep, we hired an MMI grad too. So far not impressed, very slow and needs a lot of watching.

 

[JustJason]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

I'm sad to say i'm an MMI grad and would not hire 1 of the 30 kids I graduated with.

I'm in my 7th year on my own as a mobile guy.

First 5 were good to me, but last year was lousy, probably was for a lot of folks.

I made the decision to move to SW FL earlier this year in hopes of more work. Working in Massachusettes is harder because of the 6 month season.

It's funny, because spring started out very strong, stronger than I anticipated. Then there was the June dropoff that always happens up here. So I went to FL and signed a place for August 1rst.
When I came back up it was like everybody called at once. I shut the door on new work but i'm still 2 weeks out right now. Even though I will be paying rent on the new house starting Aug 1, I don't think i'll be down there until the 3rd week of it. All and all I know I made the right decision because come November up here, boating is done.... But man If I stayed up here until then I could be making a killing.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

I have every expectation that there are good techs that come out of MMI. We talk to every one that comes by or calls hoping to find one.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

The last MMI grad we had was back in 99. Nice kid, but when he was given the task of test running a 40 hp he told me it needed a new carburetor...I asked him how he determined that and he replied, "when I squeeze the prime bulb fuel comes out of it". He had never been taught to clean a carb or even the simplest diagnostic procedures...He was well trained on gear oil changes though

 

[JustJason]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

Good luck with that Dhadley, I could tell you horror storys about that place (in private) if you wanted.
I used to get fairly upset when I was there because the way they graded and what counted, how much it counted, and what they chose to ignore.

The 1 for instance i'll give you is when I was taking my VP final exam... worth something like 20% of the overall grade for the class.
It was 50 question, multiple guess, open book(open service manual). Every dumb question was a specific specification on XYZ engine. It was nothing more than an exercise in opening a service manual... and that was the final.

Anyway, it took me 3 hours to do the test, and I missed 1 question, got a 98 on it. It was the most boring 3 hours of my life. At a table across from me, 1 english speaking and 4 non-english speaking (as in basically no habla engles at all) recieved and then passed in their tests within 1/2 hour. All 5 aced the test. At the 1/2 mark I was maybe 7 questions deep, as there was alot of waiting around for a service manual to become available. Not 1 kid from that table got up to grab a book.

I made a big stink about it and demanded they be thrown out, or cut and suspended for a period of time.
My arguement to staff was that when you turn a blind eye to that crap, you are de-valueing my degree by passing individuals who knowingly cheat. They didn't care as long as the student loan checks kept coming in, and those 5 didn't get so much as a talking to. I was not happy at all.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

there must be some decent MMI grads and like Dhadly I am waiting on one.
the last kid we hired and subsequently had to let go, remains a friend.
he is still on the hook for a 26K loan he took out to attend the MMI course.
looking over his course materiels its simply to much information and not enough indepth technical training and NO training on logical steps in troubleshooting.
the FIRST step in troubleshooting,be it a boat,a car or a CIWS mount, is understand how the system works when its working correctly,second step is to observe what isnt working as designed.
third step is to isolate the failed subsystem.
if you cant grasp the first your sunk on the next two.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

Rodbolt and Jason are correct about "training schools". They are companies that are required to make money.

Flunking or expelling a student means the money is not coming in. In effect, everyone passes or that particular student gets upset that he or she spent tens of thousands and has to leave.

Due to the complexities and numerous types of marine engines and outboards, there is no way to make a top notch tech in an 18 month period for someone starting from scratch.

The better techs that I've known over the years, Rodbolt I consider one of the best, have a gift for analyzing and figuring out how things work, plus they have a love for fixing things. Troubleshooting is not just looking up specs and using a meter, it is a visual understanding of the particular system (ignition, fuel, mechanical, etc) and knowing what might go wrong and how it affects the engine.

You can make people memorize something or read it out of a book, like a cookbook, but that can't make someone a great mechanic or a great cook. It takes something inside the person to make them want to do that type of work and get satisfaction out of a job well done.

Making a customer happy and having him or her go out of their way to tell you that makes the whole thing worth it.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

Sadly I can relate to the MMI experience but in a different field. I got a loan for $8k to take a course to become a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. What a joke that was. There was no entrance exam that I remember. I start class and notice that the guy sitting next to me doesn't know how to use a mouse . There was little hands on training. I ended up skipping a number of classes. Bought a couple test manuals from Big Lots and passed all the certification tests. Didn't teach me squat. I feel even more sorry for the poor suckers in there that weren't even able to grasp enough to pass the tests.

 

[JustJason]

Re: How bad off is the marine industry? Part 2

They are companies that are required to make money.

Yep, totally agree. With these schools, or any other school, the 1 thing they don't teach you is how to think, or how to troubleshoot.

looking over his course materiels its simply to much information and not enough indepth technical training and NO training on logical steps in troubleshooting.

Agree again. From day 1 all they do is cut and paste selected material out of various service manuals and make basic presentations about it. Of all the individual modules (there were 20 I believe), they don't have 1 on troubleshooting, you have to put it all together yourself.

It's a school, and a school is what you make of it. But what kills me and makes me sore about that place is the business aspect of it.

In effect, everyone passes or that particular student gets upset that he or she spent tens of thousands and has to leave.

If I went to Harvard, Yale, MIT, or a state college and I wasn't making the grade I get cut and booted, plain and simple. With that place you can cheat and do whatever you want and still get a diploma as long as you show up on time every day.

I think that when you think of the big picture. Part of the problem when you think about the marine industry and trained technicians are schools like these that pump out bad technicians with diplomas saying "I am a marine mechanic" insteading of cutting them and saying sorry kid, you don't have what it takes. If the schools cut them, then the marinas/dealers would have a higher percentage of quality tech's.
I don't know if the schools are spineless, or it's just part of the business decision to keep money comming in, but all they do is keep the money and then pass on the decision of having to tell someone they stink to whomever their future employer may be. Then it's the employer that has to make the cut, upset the person, then look for another guy to replace him and start the cycle over again.
The problem with that is inbetween the hiring and the firing there is a timespan that passes where the person fumbles is way through work, costs money instead of making money, and usually damages something. If you could skip all that, then the industry would be better off as a whole.



It's funny now that i'm telling my customers about my move and thanking them all for years of business. They are happy for me and wish me the best of luck, but at the same time they are mad and aggitated because now they have to find somebody else they can trust in.