1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

If all of the plugs are out and the starter won't spin the engine at normal speed, then you likely have some internal issues like a seized bearing/bent rod.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

If all of the plugs are out and the starter won't spin the engine at normal speed, then you likely have some internal issues like a seized bearing/bent rod.

Understood - I will try this today. RE: the other issues you mentioned I *$%^@& hope not!

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

The starter was shot - picked up a new one (world of difference re: cranking pwr).

BTW for anyone else that comes across issues with finding parts at the local autozone or Auto parts store et al try 1985 ford Econoline 150 with the 351.


.....


So now with the starter sorted I am trouble shooting ignition. First up - new Distributor cap & rotor.

Next is sorting if I have power at the coil, I don't have an Ohm meter so it is a bit of trial and error. I made a test light using a replacement brake light bulb for the truck.... I do not appear to be getting pwr at the coil.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

The starter was shot - picked up a new one (world of difference re: cranking pwr).

BTW for anyone else that comes across issues with finding parts at the local autozone or Auto parts store et al try 1985 ford Econoline 150 with the 351.

I hope you got a marine starter, and not a normal auto starter. The starter is spark protected, and is the lowest spark-producing item in the bilge (where fuel fumes would accumulate) so I'd make sure on that. You should have just taken the starter to a rebuild shop, they probably could have rebuilt it for less than what you paid for a new one.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

re: starter - crap. (thank you though)
re: intake manifold - worked great.
re: water in the oil issue (white as snow through and through!) - crap.

Clearly something else is cracked.

The good news? it ran very well, idled well too. If Didn't check the oi when I did I'd have gone to bed thinking all was well. Looks like maybe next season I'll throw a long block in it.

I am open to suggestions but I think the only thing left to do is got the long or possibly the short block route.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

If the boat is sitting on the street that is Angled towards the curb and the drain plug is on the high side of the pan... is it possible there is enough contaminated oil left in there to contaminate 5 qts of good oil?

What should I be torquing the manifold bolts to? Not having a manual I simply tightened it checked the settings of the tightest bolts and made them all match.

I suppose since this boat has been in salt water (via previous owner) I should pull the valve covers and check the plugs for corrosion (found a video on youtube that showed brass plugs completely corroded through)

Any other ideas?

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

I hate threads that just stop with out resolution. (so I will most likely appear to be rambling on).

The water in the oil is a mystery and one that probably won't be solved without either a compression check for Gaskets or removing the heads and looking for cracks.

The Valve covers removed did not reveal anything note worthy except a little rust near the rear most valves (none of the plugs were brass or corroded).

My goal of having this boat seaworthy in the next 7 days is slipping away quickly...

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

I've now got new oil in it and have run it very briefly WITHOUT WATER 4 or 5 times over the last 12 hrs checking the oil periodically.

The oil is 90% clean but still showing some signs of froth:

1) dip stick has some froth but is mostly 90% clean oil
2) the valve covers appear to have some clean water in them (i wiped them out before running)

My thought is after running it a few more times today I was going to let the oil cool all the way and then try and drain some of the residual water AND then repeat the testing. Once I'm confident that the frothing is not getting any worse reconnect the muffs add water and test.

This is my last ditch effort....and I am confident I will be able to determine if the last batch oil was ruined from residual gunk in the system.

If it fails this last test - the Exhaust manifolds and Heads get pulled (sometime in the future).

Just curious but if a Exhaust manifold is cracked it would be visibly leaking water externally but not anywhere into the oil system correct? (bringing me back to a possible cracked head)

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

Not necessarily on the exhuast manifold crack. The crack could be internal, which could allow water to enter into the combustion chamber through the exhaust valve. However, that doesn't explain how it gets into your oil unless it is slipping past the rings.

I'm willing to bet you have a crack somewhere else though. My 351w of the same vintage had water in one or two cylinders and in the oil (not frothy). One of the exhuast passages in the head had corroded through over the years and allowed cooling water into the combustion chamber. Unfortunately, the engine sat for a year or so before we tried to turn it over and the engine was locked up. I am willing to bet you will need to just buy a rebuilt long block and go on, the compression test is the only thing I'd be doing if I were you.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

I am willing to bet you will need to just buy a rebuilt long block and go on, the compression test is the only thing I'd be doing if I were you.

Yep a LB is my thought (fear) as well. I now just need to convince my wife that swinging a LB right now is a good idea

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

Oops. I just broke a Manifold bolt attempting to torque them a bit more...

:redface::redface:

Any tricks to remove below the block broken bolts??

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

I pulled the Heads this morning - lft head looks fine, gaskets looked fine, Cylinders were dry.

The rt head had a completely clogged water port and all of the Cylinders had water in them..... Could a clogged water port be the culprit? The gasket came off so wet it is hard to tell for sure but it certainly seems plausible.

I also noticed (see picture) that the bottom corners of where the head meets the block on the block the metal seems water logged if that is even possible (only on rt side of engine). The picture should be able to explain ti better.

Here is a link to more pictures...

http://picasaweb.google.com/bpowell97/MarineFord351TearDown?authkey=Gv1sRgCNP8_ebh4pGRygE#

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

Pulled the valves in the Right Head expecting to find something more revealing than some smeg in the #2 intake. It got dark so will look more closely tomorrow.

I know it is a long shot but it didn't cost me anything to tear it down.

Maybe I find something in the rt head in the morning or possibly after work in lft head....

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

Again, I would closely inspect the coolant passanges in the head to see if they intuded into the intake/exhaust passages.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

Found the cracked head - bought a clean looking set of heads without any history on them (they came with a amateur re-built block too).

So I was on the right track to getting everything back in order and hit a small bump in the road when I (a beginner amateur) attempted to adjust the valve train for the first time in my life. Per the directions I was getting over the phone from a competent relative I started to torque the rocker arms to 23ft/lb and then some time right around 2:00am I attempted to start her only to hear an unsettling knocking noise...

then the starter spun in place....and I knew I goofed.

Next day called relative and he explained I over torqued the rocker arms.... then proceeded to walk me through he top dead center bottom of the stroke technique.

The good news:

Engine is back together and should be crack free (if the block is still good).

The Bad news:

I broke 2 or 3 or more teeth on the fly wheel.

I have a few Questions:


I have an 888 out drive with a ford 351..... does Anyone know what Fly wheel I should get?
Any one have one to sell me?
Any Tips to installing one?


Note: I am flying my relative out to have him put the fly wheel in and tune the valve train.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

I believe your engine should have the 28oz imbalance, as the 50oz imbalance didn't get added to the 302 until the 8mid 80's. Changing the flywheel isn't difficult, but it will definitely have to come out of the boat since you will need to remove the coupler/flywheel cover to access the studs.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

It is a 351, is the 28oz imbalance the same on both the 302 and 351? HAve one on hand? lol

Thought it might be possible to simply move the engine forward just enough to get to all that.

 

[VP46]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

found this:

Ford 351w 164 tooth 28 oz - ok to use this one you think? It seems to be a steal for $62

http://www.amazon.com/Chromoly-Flexplate-289-351W-Balance-Weight/dp/B000PC3JQU

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: 1976 ford 302 Merc 888 - frothy oil

A flywheel is a flywheel as long as it has the proper imbalance to match your harmonic balancer. I'm sure it would be fine.