Any advice on new trim tab setup?

vicman

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
33
I recently put new smart tabs on my 06' Rinker 192. Originally I had issues with porpoising. Now with the new tabs, porpoising is eliminated and I have noticed planning at a much slower speed. The problem I now have, is as soon as the boat planes, it lists to the left. I am currently running a 4 blade 14.25 X 19 prop, that came on the boat, which some feedback says maybe the combination of tabs and a prop that is not the best suited for my boat may be an issue. I talked with John from Nautilus, (extremely nice BTW). He suggested 1) trim up (which helped, but the listing is still annoying with trim all the way down) 2) adjust tabs with more pressure on starboard than port. 3) Change props. I need the results the tabs provide, but somehow have got to get the boat to level out. I do feel like I have the wrong prop, but don't know what prop would work the best for water sports on this boat and if my wife has to do alot of trimming and adjusting to pull me on a wakeboard ........ I don't think I will be doing much more wakeboarding. Please help!!
 

Capt'n Chris

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
461
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

The correct prop most always elimintes the necessities of add-ons.
 

ovrrdrive

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
265
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

A set of adjustable tabs from either Lenco or Bennett will fix it for you. If you shop around it won't cost much more than a new prop either.
 

alwims

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
89
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

This may sound stupid, but are you sure it is listing with the trim tabs? I thought the same thing with my bassboat, but discovered, by having someone follow behind me, that I was listing to the starboard before I put the smart tabs on and now I'm running level. I just never noticed it before. BTW, we tested this, by taking the actuators off and tying the plates up out of the water. Like I said, sounds stupid so if your sure it is listing with the tabs, then just disregard my whole post.
 

redsput

Cadet
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
20
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

I'm also in need of any advice based on experience with the setup and adjustments of smart tabs. Just installed the reccommended set (st1290-80) on my 1988 18' Checkmate with a 260 mercruiser - running a 24p stainless Turbo prop.

Set up is at the reccommended "starting point" - middle pressure hole, 25 degrees down.

The good:

Holeshot is much better, bowlift reduced a LOT.

Will hold a plane 5-7 mph slower than before (which will be nice for wakeboarding.)

Porpoising is basically gone (was pretty bad between 20-40 mph prior - some props better than others.)

This boat also had a tendency to accept a big wave over the rear when slowing down if you were not real careful with the throttle. This is also MUCH improved.



The bad: (which I hope can be adjusted out to at least some extent)

I also am experiencing more listing to the left just off a plane and at slower speeds.

At cruising speeds (35-50) there is noticably more drag, the hull is not as "free" - and seems to take more throttle and rpm to maintain the same speeds as before.

Acceleration seems to have taken a small hit from "on plane" all the way to "top end." Also need to throw more trim at it now to lift the bow for speed.

Top end, I gained almost 200 RPM, lost 2-3 mph. Wierd huh? Best I saw tonight was 63 gps, typically I get 65-67 pending water conditions.

Also "at speed" where this boat rides high on the pad, it's now squirly. Almost feels like it's boucing from tab to tab. This boat NEVER had any handling issue at speeds above 40 before.

I'd appreciate any "shortcuts" I can pick up along the way to getting the setup nailed. (It's a pita trying to do this on the boat in the water without putting it back on the trailer everytime.)
 

NHGuy

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

I have a Mercruiser 260 HP that I got last year. I am running a much lower pitch prop, for 2 reasons, our lake has a speed limit of 45, and that's what was getting me to WOT. I only get about 50 or 52 MPH indicated on a pitot tube speedo. Any way I am glad you posted your speeds, makes me want to check my tune up condition.
As far as tabs, I've only run tabs once on a heavy underpowered boat that was not mine, but my logical process says less angle will help top end and hurt low speed plane, which do you want? Can you also adjust downforce? That's kind of cool.
Good luck.
 

vicman

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
33
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

My top end is around 42, and thats fine. The tabs have done everything they advertised. The only problem is they have introduced the leaning to the left problems. If it is a combination of tab and prop tweeking, I am good with it, but just don't know what to tweek. I know somebody has gone through this before. Do I need to change props? If so, go with a 3, 4 or 5 bladed prop? Different size and / or pitch? Should I take the tabs back off and look into something like a "Doel-Fin" stabilizer? The boat is exactly what we wanted, just need to figure out what the fix is!
 

wbc1957

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
261
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

I would say to email the Nauticus website, but I have tried several times about the issue of whether it is safe to uuse the PR500 adaptors with the SX Smart Tabs. They are not big on returning emails! Other sites say the adaptors are not to be used with the SX, but can be used with the stainless steel tabs. I can see once you have the tabs on, there needs to be a go to guy from Nauticus to dial you in! Bill
 

redsput

Cadet
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
20
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

I'm also in need of any advice based on experience with the setup and adjustments of smart tabs. Just installed the reccommended set (st1290-80) on my 1988 18' Checkmate with a 260 mercruiser - running a 24p stainless Turbo prop.

Set up is at the reccommended "starting point" - middle pressure hole, 25 degrees down.

The good:

Holeshot is much better, bowlift reduced a LOT.

Will hold a plane 5-7 mph slower than before (which will be nice for wakeboarding.)

Porpoising is basically gone (was pretty bad between 20-40 mph prior - some props better than others.)

This boat also had a tendency to accept a big wave over the rear when slowing down if you were not real careful with the throttle. This is also MUCH improved.



The bad: (which I hope can be adjusted out to at least some extent)

I also am experiencing more listing to the left just off a plane and at slower speeds.

At cruising speeds (35-50) there is noticably more drag, the hull is not as "free" - and seems to take more throttle and rpm to maintain the same speeds as before.

Acceleration seems to have taken a small hit from "on plane" all the way to "top end." Also need to throw more trim at it now to lift the bow for speed.

Top end, I gained almost 200 RPM, lost 2-3 mph. Wierd huh? Best I saw tonight was 63 gps, typically I get 65-67 pending water conditions.

Also "at speed" where this boat rides high on the pad, it's now squirly. Almost feels like it's boucing from tab to tab. This boat NEVER had any handling issue at speeds above 40 before.

I'd appreciate any "shortcuts" I can pick up along the way to getting the setup nailed. (It's a pita trying to do this on the boat in the water without putting it back on the trailer everytime.)

Update:
I set the tabs to about 18 degress down, and backed off on "down pressure" by one hole.

The holeshot suffered a little, but not bad. Still far better than it was w/o the tabs.

I still lists left, but less.

I re-gained 1 mph, and the handling is better at high speed (though not where I'd like it to be yet.

Since my boat is fairly light for a sterndrive v8, I'm starting to think I should have gone with the 60 lb actuators perhaps? Who knows. Next time out I'll try something a little different again.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

vicman,

Did you see this:

This may sound stupid, but are you sure it is listing with the trim tabs? I thought the same thing with my bassboat, but discovered, by having someone follow behind me, that I was listing to the starboard before I put the smart tabs on and now I'm running level. I just never noticed it before. BTW, we tested this, by taking the actuators off and tying the plates up out of the water. Like I said, sounds stupid so if your sure it is listing with the tabs, then just disregard my whole post.

Also, why not adjust pressure to compensate? DO NOT GO WITH A HYDROFOIL . . . My .02

FWIW, and I am a SmartTab lover, but I am first and foremost an adjustable tab guy. You can adjust for any changes anytime for any reason. Who wouldn't want that?
 

alwims

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
89
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

redsput, call John or Greg. They will exchange the actuators for different lbs. John told me it was standard policy.
 

vicman

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
33
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

This weekend, I put the tabs on 1 and 1 (minimum resistance) it seemed to help, but I couldn't tell much because soooo much weekend boat traffic had the the whole lake in turmoil. I think I will go back and try more pressure on the starboard and see what happens. If that doesn't work, I am afraid I'll have to take them off and try something else. Someone recommended a "cupped prop" to lift the stern. Does anyone know anything about this? Please come up with some suggestions. There is another IBOATS forum user that is watching these posts for answers. He is having the same problem. Ya'll have always come through for me in the past....DON"T LET ME DOWN NOW!!
 

vicman

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
33
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

Here is the solution, I called the Rinker company and their customer service seems to be second to none. I changed the tabs to hole 4 on the port side. ( the side that leans) Changed to hole 3 on starboard. More pressure on the side that leans. I may try to go to hole 2 on the starboard and see what happens, but it is really close. He also recommended a smaller diameter five bladed prop for tubing and wakeboarding. He said the smaller diameter should help the twisting from the right hand rotation of the prop, but the extra blade will be great for low end torque. Hope this may help anyone else who has had these propblems.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Any advice on new trim tab setup?

Vicman;

For all of you who have not received prompt response to your email I must apologize. Our server was 'hacked' and we were receiving 4000 plus emails (junk) every few days. I think it is better now.

Addressing the issue of listing - Tabs or no Tabs.

Except for load imbalance "listing to port" is nearly always a result of prop torque and/or resistance. The prop rotates clockwise which causes the boat to try rotating counter-clockwise.

When the bottom of the boat is completely flat (which it never is these days) the hull resists the list.

When the hull is 'V' shaped the list is likely to show up. However, when the 'V' bottom boat is underway (cruising) the water pressure on the hull is usually enough to resist the prop torque and keep the boat level.

When a list occurs at cruising speed, what is the cause? To answer this question we need to make some assumptions, such as:

The prop is a standard three blade.
There are no other planing devices on the boat (ie: Hydrofoils)
Load is even.

Under the above criteria, the answer would likely be that the "motor trim" is too far down (close to the transom). With the motor trim down the prop is pushing the boat UP on the stern and down on the bow. The front or bow end of the boat is where the hull has the most severe 'V' and has less ability to resist the torque of the prop. Trimming out usually helps minimize the list if not remove it entirely. Excessive stern lift is not good!

Notice that lifting the stern and pushing the bow down increases the sensitivity for a list.
What else lifts the stern? Hydrofoils, Trim Tabs, and some props.

Hydrofoils by their design, lift the stern and do so more and more as the boat increases in speed, so that the boat runs bow down on the sharper portion of the 'V' hull.

Some props are designed to create lift, but these are usually specialty props.
However, cupped, four,and five bladed props have increased resistance and make it harder for the hull to resist the listing.

Smart Tabs (Trim Tabs) can cause cause a list when:
A) they are set with too much lift (adjustment issue)
B) when the Actuator is too strong for the application (exchange actuators)
C) when the motor is not trimmed out to vertical.

PLEASE NOTE: If the boat does NOT list without the trim tabs (or the other devices) then the list is being caused by excessive lift from the tabs (or the other devices), AND ADJUSTING THE TABS STRONGER ON ONE SIDE (PORT) THAN THE OTHER IS NOT LIKELY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM WITHOUT CAUSING ANOTHER HANDLING PROBLEM.

The solution is to reduce the lift (adjustment) or exchange the actuators if necessary.

IN SUMMARY: A list to port is most often caused by lifting the stern and driving the bow down when at cruising speeds. Hydrofoils, aggressive props, and any stationary lifting device, can cause the boat to be prone to a list. Smart Tabs can also cause a list when adjusted too strong or when the actuator is too strong.

As A Side Note: Most boat operators are reluctant to trim the motor out because the boat may porpoise, but when the Smart Tabs are installed, they will control the porpoising.
 
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