Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

MahtyMaht

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My stepson's 1988 mcm 7.4 liter, (ser# H013445), LH, marine Stainless manifolds and risers, raw water cooled, early Bravo 1, (ser# OB804538). This thing is in Maine, mostly in the brackish rivers. He went out into the open saltwater last season, it overheated, so he went to the nearest ramp, and called a pal to come get it. He said maybe 30 minutes total hot time. He said 'it didn't get really hot'. He said he checked the oil, saw the coffe colored mess, pumped it out, put fresh oil in, ran just long enough to circulate it. He says he fogged it, drained the water jackets, and put it away. I said I'd take a crack at it. I tried to pump that bilge out of the block, but I got more water than oil, maybe 2 quarts. Call me a cynic, but the only diagnostically useful info I think I have is that it got hot, and now the oil and water are fraternizing. I made a block off plate with a schraeder valve, and a pressure gauge, bolted it up where the t-stat housing goes on the intake manifold. I plugged the fat hose from the raw water pump, put 15 psi to it. It leaked down to about 8psi in 10 minutes, still had 5 40 minutes later. I rolled a stiff paper funnel for use as an ear trumpet to help me hear, and locate any hissing. Bupkiss. Just nothing. Should I have plugged the hose from the power steering/oil cooler to circulating pump?
 

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SuperNova

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

There are a lot of maybe's. A good starting point given the scenario as presented would be to go ahead and remove the intake manifold and check the intake gasket at the water crossover areas. The intake and the head surface where the intake mounts are prone to pitting from the brackish and salt water. Let us know what you find.
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Solar7647, you're scaring me to death. I'm hoping SuperNova is onto something here. Either way, I snatched the intake right about dark this evening, thought I'd post some pics, see if anything diagnostically useful jumps out at the experienced among ya'll. It's still too dirty to try to see cracks, but I am at least encouraged to see that the cam, lifters, and valve springs are not rusted to du'e-du'e. I haven't even taken the dead gasket off the thing but I don't see reason to think there was water leakage on the head side of it. The colored slarp in the lifter valley is the emulsified oil. I do note what I think is fresh rust on the sheet metal baffle riveted to the underside of the intake.
 

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MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Here are some pics the cleaned up intake gasket surfaces - There is some pitting going on around the water passages - I just don't know if it's a leak area. That's a board lying on a trash bag in the lifter valley to keep gasket trash off the cam, and out of the oil pan. At this point, I don't care why it overheated, I just need to know if the engine is going to have to come out.
 

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SuperNova

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

I don't believe any of your pic's show the water outlets very well. They do, however, show the EGR ports VERY well. The water crossover is in the very front of the head and is partially blocked in your first photo by the thermostat housing. Actually, upon closer inspection, it's the shadow of the thermostat housing that is blocking what we need to see.
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Now I gotta research 'EGR port'. Sorry about that - These pics ought to be much more informative. I really appreciate the help here.
 

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SuperNova

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Pictures #1 and #4 are too blurry to tell much. Pic#4 looks like it may be the problem area. Part of the problem is also you sanded some of the tell-tale marks off. Get a clearer photo of #4.
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Here's the re-Pics of # 4, and the other intake water passage too, just for grins. I've taken the port side plugs out, and I see that #1 was not tight, and horror of horrors, it has no center electrode. I don't seem able to get a clear pic, but it doesn't look like water has been in any of those cylinders. Would that electrode have simply burned away, or fallen in to the cylinder in one piece? I'm gonna go snatch the plugs on the starboard side in a minute. I also pulled the water hoses off the port manifold, and found coarse sand had collected in the lower elbow. Wouldn't I expect to find the PS/oil cooler blocked with that sand too? Got the plugs out of the starboard bank - not lookin' good. Plugs in # 8 and #6 appear to have rust in the electrode wells, and when they came out, the threads picked up what appears to be white corrosion powdery stuff. i could be wrong, but I think I'm getting a whiff of antifreeze off'em. I shoved the camera down in the bilge to shoot up at the underside of those lovely stainless Marine manifolds, and it looks like rust at the head gasket seam. Does that suggest a blown gasket?
 

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MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

I got the ugly feelin' yesterday that the heads would end up commin' off this thing. Today's results seem pretty confirmatory. Unless there's some other possibility I don't know about, I think I'm goin in tomorrow. Doop! forgot the plug w/missing center electrode.
 

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Bondo

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Would that electrode have simply burned away,

Ayuh,... That's most likely caused by Detonation....
 

solar7647

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

The most common cause of detonation is carbon build up on the piston or a burr that get hot enough to ignite the fuel air mixture before the plug does. It was most likely happening before the over heat but the over heat defiantly didnt help.

let us know what you find under the head!
 

SuperNova

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Nap, she's junk.......pic #4 in your most recent collection clearly shows a cracked block. Scrap 'er.
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Well, rama-lama-damma. Props are due to Solar7646, he called it early. I'm thinkin' at this stage of the game, that engine is now dedicated to research, to advance my education. I'm assuming it won't matter to the pros that are going to have to put a new engine in there whether it has the top end on it or not. (I'm dying to get a peek under those heads). What all should I try to salvage? Heads? Intake? The tag on the block is unreadable, but the number in the block casting is HO13445, and the spark arrester numbers are 162.04119210, and B175-49. What specific engine am I shopping for?
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Hey SuperNova - What exactly are you seeing in that #4 pic? I'm not feelin' like a particularly astute observer.
 

Bondo

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

I'm not feelin' like a particularly astute observer.

Ayuh,... The Rust line just above the motor mount is a Crack...
 

MahtyMaht

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Re: Uh-Oh... Chocolate mousse for oil.........

Well, gentlemen, as TAPS plays in my head for this venerable old 454, I'd like to thank all you guys for some freakishly good insights and advice. I now believe it's time for my stepson to discover that everything that's worth knowing is not fun to learn.
 
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