2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

[Racingman24]

So I'm finally getting close to the time of tearing the boat apart and putting it back together...and...I'm actually getting excited. I'm sure I'll be swearin' up a storm often enough, and mad as hell and want to sink it, but for now...I'm excited.

Anyway, my first question has to do with the fiberglass cloth [or matt] used when glassing over the new plywood.

How thick/What weight should the fiberglass be? Does it need to be an all out 20-30 oz setup, or do I just need the minimal 1-2 oz? If I go the route of 1-2 oz, could I just lay down 2 layers, or would that not be cost effective as far as Resin goes?

My Plan as of right now is to use 3/4" BCX, glass over the nice side, and lay it down...sound like the right thing to do?


Ok, my second "main" question has to do with the order of the whole madness that I'm about to unfold.

Here's how it goes in my head...

1-27 - Teardown
2 - Paint and Gulvit
3 - Cut new decking
4 - drill holes for rivits and such
5 - Fiberglass and resin coat new deck
6 - Install Carpet [This is where I'm not sure if the order is right]
7 - Install New Deck into boat with all nice new SS fasteners
8 - Put all the other fun stuff back in....

Yea, I know I make it sound easier than it actually is, but hey, I'm simplifying it to let myself fantasize that I won't come out hating this boat.

But so yea...many thanks to all people on here, I've gotten so much info already from that pretty little search button, but searching the word "fiberglass" tends to bring up more than what I'm looking for

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Anyway, my first question has to do with the fiberglass cloth [or matt] used when glassing over the new plywood.

How thick/What weight should the fiberglass be? Does it need to be an all out 20-30 oz setup, or do I just need the minimal 1-2 oz? If I go the route of 1-2 oz, could I just lay down 2 layers, or would that not be cost effective as far as Resin goes?
My Plan as of right now is to use 3/4" BCX, glass over the nice side, and lay it down...sound like the right thing to do?

For the top side of the deck many people will just lay down one layer of 1.5 oz CSM(mat), and either one layer of the same on the bottom or just a layer of Resin without Fiberglass. I would advice to put a layer of Glass on it, for the few bucks extra it will cost you. I layed down a layer of 2 oz CSM with another layer of 6oz Cloth over the top for a smoother finish.(I'm putting Gel Coat down as the final surface). I also put a layer of CSM on the bottom.

Ok, my second "main" question has to do with the order of the whole madness that I'm about to unfold.

Here's how it goes in my head...

1-27 - Teardown
2 - Paint and Gulvit
3 - Cut new decking
4 - drill holes for rivits and such
5 - Fiberglass and resin coat new deck
6 - Install Carpet [This is where I'm not sure if the order is right]
7 - Install New Deck into boat with all nice new SS fasteners
8 - Put all the other fun stuff back in....

Here is how I would do it
1. Teardown
2. Make sure the stringer system(not sure how it is in your boat)is sound. I take it your boat is Aluminum?
3. Cut and fit new decking.
4. Do whatever you are going to do to the bottom of the deck(either resin and glass, or just resin).
5. Install the deck, fasten it down to the stringers and hull.
6. Put your Glass on the whole deck.
7. Tab in the deck to the hull( 4" up the hull, 4" on the deck.
8. Clean up the deck(sand) if need be.
9. Install Carpet
10. Put seats and other stuff back in the boat.
11. Go boating!

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

For the top side of the deck many people will just lay down one layer of 1.5 oz CSM(mat), and either one layer of the same on the bottom or just a layer of Resin without Fiberglass. I would advice to put a layer of Glass on it, for the few bucks extra it will cost you. I layed down a layer of 2 oz CSM with another layer of 6oz Cloth over the top for a smoother finish.(I'm putting Gel Coat down as the final surface). I also put a layer of CSM on the bottom.

So you're saying I should use matt, not cloth? Or just go with cloth from the start?

I'm looking at a 1.43 oz 38" wide, 50 yard roll off ebay for 50$, figured that's a pretty good price?

And how much resin will I end up needing...aprox.

Here is how I would do it
1. Teardown
2. Make sure the stringer system(not sure how it is in your boat)is sound. I take it your boat is Aluminum?

You are correct, 14' '87 Alumacraft

3. Cut and fit new decking.
4. Do whatever you are going to do to the bottom of the deck(either resin and glass, or just resin).
5. Install the deck, fasten it down to the stringers and hull.
6. Put your Glass on the whole deck.
7. Tab in the deck to the hull( 4" up the hull, 4" on the deck.

"Tab in the deck to the hull".....Huh?

8. Clean up the deck(sand) if need be.
9. Install Carpet

Carpeting get's installed in the boat? I thought the carpeting wrapped around the deck towards the bottom? I guess I'm wrong.

10. Put seats and other stuff back in the boat.
11. Go boating!

Sounds like a plan!

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

So you're saying I should use matt, not cloth? Or just go with cloth from the start?

I'm looking at a 1.43 oz roll off ebay for 50$, figured that's a pretty good price?

And how much resin will I end up needing...aprox.

Umm, not sure how much Glass that role is giving you?? How wide is the role, and how many feet? I bought my mat on a 50" role for 4.20 per yard. For 6 oz cloth it was roughly the same.

For my project I will have used about 7 gallons of Poly resin. But I did alot of stringer glassing before I ever got to the deck. I was able to wet out about 11yrds of Mat and 5 yrds of 6 oz cloth. The cloth is much easier to wet out than mat.

You can go with Cloth from the start if you'd like. Mat is has better strength, so I opted to do that..but you don't have to. You will use far less resin going with cloth only.

You are correct, 14' '87 Alumacraft

Ok, hopefully some of the Aluminum guys will chime in here too..

"Tab in the deck to the hull".....Huh?

What that means is, when you lay the new deck into your boat, the seam where the new wood meets the side of your boat needs to be secured together. Now..I'm not exactly sure how guys do this with aluminum..but with a fiberglass boat, you need to run at least an 8" strip of glass along the seam so the new deck is bonded to your hull. I did this step first before going over the whole deck with Glass, not sure it makes that big a difference either way.

Carpeting get's installed in the boat? I thought the carpeting wrapped around the deck towards the bottom? I guess I'm wrong.

The carpet will cover the new deck, and get glued up the sides of your hull.

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Umm, not sure how much Glass that role is giving you?? How wide is the role, and how many feet? I bought my mat on a 50" role for 4.20 per yard. For 6 oz cloth it was roughly the same.

Yea, I fixed that now...oops. It's a 50 yard roll of 38" wide 1.43 oz cloth.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Have a look at this picture..Drew did an awesome job with this boat. Some major work was put in. The Grey color you see on the deck is Gel Coat over glass. The part where the grey stops and the sides of the hull start is the area I'm talking about that needs to be tabbed. Just a 8" strip, half of it up the hull and the other half on the deck...you should also run a 8" strip along all the areas where there is a seem in your deck from the new boards..put those down first, before laying the final layer of glass.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Yea, I fixed that now...oops. It's a 50 yard roll of 38" wide 1.43 oz cloth.

Ok thats for cloth. I'm not an expert of fiberglass..ONDARVR is the man around here for that. But I put a layer of 6oz cloth in my boat over the mat.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

This is a picture of my deck. If you look at the seems of the new deck..you can see the outline of a strip of glass. Thats what I'm referring to.

This is what was just layed down over those strips. 2 oz mat. Then I put the cloth over that.

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Wow...all those pics look really good, and make me want to get started all that much more. Thanks so much MTribe08.

Any Aluminum guys want to chime in about if the 1.5 oz is thick enough for just coating the wood?

And since the carpet doesn't ride up the hull on my boat, does that change the order of the process at all?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

You have several options for a floor in an aluminum boat. You can go very high end, down to very cheap and they all work, just last a different length of time, but even that will vary a great deal depending on how you store the boat. You can put in an aluminum floor, it will last forever, need more bracing, be light in weight and costly. Or you can lay down some CDX plywood and paint it with non skid paint, this method actually works fairly well, only takes an afternoon to do and the cost is low. If kept covered this type of floor will last a very long time and when it does rot it can be replaced again easily.

Unless you really want carpet, stay away from it, it will stay wet and rot a plywood floor faster than anything else.

With your current plan you most likely don't need 3/4 ply, 1/2 is plenty, some even use 3/8 if its well supported.

1.43 oz cloth won't work well, its far to light, you 6oz or better.

1.5 oz mat is OK.

Glass both sides of the ply or none of it, doing one side won't help.


Do some more searches and be more specific in what you?re looking for, then read, read, read.

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

I do plan on going back with a wood floor. A solid Aluminum floor that will never rot again would be nice, but I'm trying to do this on somewhat of a budget.

And since I'm going with wood and really don't want to have to deal with this again, I want to do it right.

I do really want carpet, I know it's a thing that's constantly debated over here, but it's something that I want, being I'm doing this for my Grandfather [and for me of course ] I'm just gonna stick with carpet.

The boat will always be stored winters indoors..and ALWAYS covered. And before it gets covered, it will be dried out if it gets rained on.

I'll keep an eye out for one or the other then, 1.5oz mat, or 6oz or higher cloth.

Lastly...not to question you, but rather to question most the other threads I've read around here, why is it not good to glass the top, and resin coat the bottom? The only reason I had planned on doing that is the large amount of people on here doing just that, if you tell me that that is no good, then I go the other way...just looking for info.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Resin alone has little strength, doesn't matter if its epoxy or polyester. As the wood expands and contracts the resin will fatigue over time and crack, these cracks allow water in, but make it harder for it to get out, so the wood stays wet. The area under the plywood (Bilge) stays wet and humid long after the boat has been outside and this is the worst environment for wood.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Wow...all those pics look really good, and make me want to get started all that much more. Thanks so much MTribe08.

Any Aluminum guys want to chime in about if the 1.5 oz is thick enough for just coating the wood?

And since the carpet doesn't ride up the hull on my boat, does that change the order of the process at all?

No problem..I'm glad ONDARVR chimed in, he's where I've learned most of my stuff.

If you want this boat deck to last like you say, then spend a few extra bucks in glass and resin and put a layer of glass on the bottom. If you are just doing cloth(6 oz) you could probably do both sides of your deck with a gallon or so probably less. It soaks it up fast..but click on this link and it will tell you how much resin you'll need for the type of glass you are using.
http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-68/Fiberglass-Information,-and-How/Detail

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

OK, did a bunch more searching...

Thinking about going with the 1.5 oz mat from FiberGlassSite, and can be seen here, http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-1/FIBERGLASS,CHOPPED,STRAND,MAT,CLOTH/Detail

2 of them should plenty get both sides of the deck done, and I was thinking to get a 5 yard roll of the 2 oz mat to do the transom...Is that a good way to go?

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Any Opinions?

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

OK, did a bunch more searching...

Thinking about going with the 1.5 oz mat from FiberGlassSite, and can be seen here, http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-1/FIBERGLASS,CHOPPED,STRAND,MAT,CLOTH/Detail

2 of them should plenty get both sides of the deck done, and I was thinking to get a 5 yard roll of the 2 oz mat to do the transom...Is that a good way to go?

The 1.5oz mat for the deck will be good. One layer on each side will do, but most say you should put 2 layers on top.

For the Transom..I think most mix Mat and Woven Roving. Something like 2 layers of mat, then a layer of Woving and then another layer of mat to finish. Might want to search around on that..lots of restores going on right now that will detail that. I'll see if I can find one and link it here.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Here is a recently done transom:

He said he put a layer of 1.5oz mat then a layer of Woven Roving, followed up by another layer of 1.5oz mat.

 

[Racingman24]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Ok, I'm gonna let my newbie light shine for a little bit here, but what is Roven Woving?

And I'm assuming I do both sides of the transom...it appears in the pic that he only has the back side done.

Again, my boat is aluminum, so it'll slide in the top, and I'm sure the owner of the boat in the pics is going to do the front side in the boat, but just wanting to make sure.

 

[MTribe08]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

Ok, I'm gonna let my newbie light shine for a little bit here, but what is Roven Woving?

This is Woven Roving..used in areas that need extreme strength and quick build up.
http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-Woven-Roving-cln-18-oz-roving/Categories

And I'm assuming I do both sides of the transom...it appears in the pic that he only has the back side done.

Again, my boat is aluminum, so it'll slide in the top, and I'm sure the owner of the boat in the pics is going to do the front side in the boat, but just wanting to make sure.

Here..spend some time looking through some aluminum boat restores..it will help you much more than I'll be able to.
This is a great one:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=357767

And another:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=364883

And another:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=365995

If you have any questions, ask either of the 3 owners of these boats..They are all extremely knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 2 Questions...fiberglass weight, and the overall entire process...

I find I can accomplish most anything with layers of 1 1/2oz mat and 6 oz cloth, takes a while but I'm not running a boat factory so...
Its a lot cheaper too.