Boat design question

elpirata76

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Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
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Re: Need some help please

Re: Need some help please

Well I ordered the foam from Us Composites The 4lb stuff .I ordered two kits bout 147 bucks shiped to my house. Im only 70 miles away though. It covers roughly 8 cubic feet. I think thats enough for my hull. Ill get it Monday. I was thinking about painting my boat any tips on the grit of the sand paper I should use. I was told that 100 grit to start and finish with 150 is good.
 

evildocrsx

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Aug 1, 2009
Messages
244
Re: Need some help please

Re: Need some help please

Make sure you take alot of pictures!
 

SKIBUM1M

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 17, 2009
Messages
604
Re: Need some help please

Re: Need some help please

The grit of sandpaper depends on what kind of paint, I am spraying auto paint and primer and I am prepping using 280 grit on a DA sander
 

BobsGlasstream

Commander
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
2,128
Re: Need some help please

Re: Need some help please

elpirata76,
One piece of advise I have with the foam. If you cut the top of the foam off level seal it with something like paint. The newer foam won't absorb water if you don't break the skin or if you seal it well.
Nice boat.
Good luck.
Bob
 

tallcanadian

Captain
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
3,245
Re: Boat design question

If you go with the foam idea, you have to make sure that the deck is completely free of cracks, holes, etc. If it were me, I think I would go with some stringers for better deck support with drain holes towards the back, in case water does get in, this will allow it to go to the back of the boat. Then pour the foam in around the stringers trying to keep a drain area at the bottom so it doesn't soak up too much water. Your floor looks deep enough perhaps for an internal gas tank as well. hmmm. Great looking boat, by the way. Good luck. Thanks for the kind words.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Boat design question

TC -

If you look, he already has stringers, and they're apparently waterproof :)

The foam should support the deck pretty well, and if he seals the deck properly he'll get many years of use from the boat without getting it wet again.

That's the thing to keep an eye on.. make sure water stays out unless you want to buy the foam again.

This is an eternal debate on this board, I think we had a big thread on it a while back... sealed boat compartments that are never supposed to get water vs. compartments with built-in drains.

I think what the consensus was is that all boats get water in them, even sealed ones, eventually. Whether that's a problem or not depends on the boat.

For this boat, water isn't really an issue except for weight or deck rot. The structure of the hull will be fine all wet... it's not rotted now even after he pulled the wet foam.

If he makes the deck from solid glass panels or makes it foam core, he could even run the boat indefinitely with water in the foam if he doesn't mind the weight... there's nothing to rot.

It doesn't make sense to me to put stringers or more wood under decks... he's doing great without wood in there now :)

Erik
 

elpirata76

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
25
Re: Boat design question

Thank you. The wheather around here has slowed me down a bit. But Im going to add some stringers an do the foam around them. I was was thinking bout the gas tank idea. I might try that.Ill keep you guys posted as soon as the materials get here and I get back to work . Thanks a bunch.
 

elpirata76

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
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Re: Boat design question

Ive had rain. Its 78 degressdown here. hopefully its stops soon I need to finish this boat. Maybe tommorow Il be back at it.:D
 

elpirata76

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
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Re: Boat design question

1260651180.jpg
Ok I'm trying something like this . Then I'm going to foam around it. What do you guys think.
 

SKIBUM1M

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
604
Re: Boat design question

I would add some longitudinal beams under the transverse ones. Maybe 3 one down the keel and 2 stringers. I know it is overkill but a boat never broke from being too strong
 

noworries79

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
171
Re: Boat design question

Looks like a good setup. I am by no means a boat builder, but those 2x4's will be much more rigid turned vertically like floor joists. If you are looking to distribute weight onto the foam, that may work.

I like the 25HP Evinrude, I have a 1991 Evinrude 48 SPL and it still kicks like it used to. Very simple, but durable engine.
 

elpirata76

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
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Re: Boat design question

Thanks , its a good little engine. Runs very well. I will fill the voids with foam. I will post pics soon.:D:D
 

tallcanadian

Captain
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
3,245
Re: Boat design question

Thats' one way of doing it. Are you going to glass those in place? You can also go the length of the boat as well. Glue two pieces of plywood together for the centre stringer and cut to get the proper height. And glass two shorter stringers on the middle of the chines where they go up. I think this would distribute any weight more evenly. It's hard to explain, but either way is good. I would glass those in place though. Are you going right back to the transom or as far as the bilge? Looking good so far. Too bad the weather isn't holding out for you.
 

SuzukiChopper

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
782
Re: Boat design question

I suggest taking ericgreen's advice. Re-read all of his posts. The less wood in your case, the better. Like he mentioned, Whaler's were built the way yours was done for a reason and it works great. Less work for you too.
 

erikgreen

Captain
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Jan 8, 2007
Messages
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Re: Boat design question

I'm afraid I need to re-agree with the guy agreeing with me :)

The wood is ok for support structure generally... although it's a bit chunkier than I'd choose for the same job.. plywood would be stronger, lighter, and less bulky.

But the thing is, your boat is designed to flex a bit... the foam is very rigid, but not completely, and the fiberglass isn't completely rigid.... because it's designed to flex, it avoids failures from forces that would destroy other boats. It bends rather than breaking.

The wood, on the other hand, won't bend, or at least won't bend as much. What'll happen is that your hull and the foam will bend around it, then the wood's stiffness will take over and keep it from going farther... which sounds good, except that the wood won't be transferring that force to the hull evenly. It'll be concentrating it into the spots where those vertical bits touch the keel (normally we'd consider those to be "hard spots" which are to be avoided). The keel on most boats won't flex, but yours might, at least relatively speaking.

Bottom line... you DO NOT NEED any support structure for the hull itself. If you want to support the deck, pour the foam then cover the top of it with a layer of wood or a thick layer of glass, for puncture prevention. Or make your deck thicker, or glass a skeleton of thicker ribs on the deck bottom before you install it.

If you try to build the classic stringers/ribs setup into this boat, you're just going to make it very heavy and less durable. It's a classic design for a reason, and although it seems intuitively you'll make it stronger and better by adding things, you really won't.

If you must have more strength, put in denser foam.. it's only slightly heavier, and if you go to 8 or 16 lb foam your hull will essentially be solid plastic, tougher than anything but a steel plate hull.

If you haven't done it already, go read on the net why Boston Whalers are considered to be strong and unsinkable... not to mention how expensive and sought after they still are.

There's even an ad picture of one cut in half at the midpoint, across the gunwales... two people on the helm, the outboard sinking down and the front out of the water... and still floating.

Erik
 

elpirata76

Cadet
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
25
Re: Boat design question

1260825323.jpg
I decided to go this route. I'm going to fill the rest up with foam. This is my first try at this. Basically this boat is not going to take a beating out there I am a bay fisherman, don't really take her out on the ocean much.:) Thanks for all the input. This site really is helpful.
1260825326.jpg
 

SKIBUM1M

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
604
Re: Boat design question

I stand corrected Ericgreen I expected it to be like any other boat but I do love alternative designs. Rotory engines for example. Just because everything else is alike doesnt mean it is the best way to do it. Thanks for the lesson and info.
 

tallcanadian

Captain
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Sep 7, 2006
Messages
3,245
Re: Boat design question

I like your latest pictures. Looks better than I imagined. Are you going to glass the rest of the stringers? Looks awesome, man.
 

elpirata76

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Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
25
Re: Boat design question

Thanks a lot. Yes , Im going to glass those as well. ran out of epoxy.LOL What do you think about foaming in the voids?? Thanks :D:D
 
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