1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

[ward cleaver]

I just bought a boat with a 1961 Johnson 40hp electric start outboard. Since the outboard wouldn't even turn over before I bought it, I valued it at near zero. It hadn't been run in a couple of years. When I got it home at first the starter wouldn't engage the flywheel, just a clunk from the solenoid. I checked the connections noted in the manual, then decided the battery needed a boost so I hooked up the charger, put it on "quick start" and turned the key. (Later, in another section, I read in the manual that doing that could damage the ignition system!)

After a few hesitant tries, it finally got to where it turns over just fine now but does not fire. I've got (fresh) gas to the spark plugs, but when I checked for spark by holding the spark plug (with wire attached) to the block (painted part, could not reach a clean part) I got no blue spark as noted in the manual. So I presume the problem is under the flywheel with the ignition system.

1) Did I damage any ignition parts by using the charger to boost the battery while starting it?

2) I am reasonably handy with a wrench but have never worked on outboards. From my quick investigation, it appears that I could face some risk of damage if I try to pull the flywheel, do the repairs and then put it back together and try to get it running. I have a puller and a torque wrench but I don't want to risk damaging an otherwise sound engine (at least I think it is sound but I don't have a compression gauge). Should I take a swing at repairing it myself?

3) I expect taking it to a repair shop could easily run up a bill for more than the outboard is worth. True?

4) What about parting it out? Think I can get more for it as it is or could I get more by selling the parts on ebay?

I'm really interested in what you folks might have to suggest as to what course of action to take.

 

[coolguy147]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

the ignition system is totally different then the electric starting system only way there connected is the kill switch only for shutting the motor off by killing spark

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

It's worth fixing, and is easy to do provided the following:
1. The compression is good and,
2. It's NOT an electric shift lower end.

You did no damage to the ignition system with a battery charger.
If you have a harmonic balancer puller already (the kind that uses bolts in the holes in the flywheel), the replacing the ignition parts is no problem. You would have to work very hard to damage anything. Instructions are at the "Points and Coils" link in the "TOP SECRET" thread at the top of this forum section. Basically you pull the flywheel, replace the points, coils and condensers, gap the points, and put the flywheel back on.
A repair shop will not charge you more that it's worth, because they will refuse to work on it.
Unfortunately, it is probably worth more parted out than whole.

 

[asdasc]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Unfortunately, it is probably worth more parted out than whole.

Unfortunately, even a good running one is worth more parted out. Still if you have one that is worth fixing, and yours sounds like it is, I feel better about myself keeping it together, getting it running nicely, and using it lots.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Pull the flywheel. Use grade 8 hardened bolts though. Read the top secret file.

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Ok, you convinced me. I'll find some surgical gloves and open er up. Hope this doesnt take 2 years like some of my projects.

 

[lindy46]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

.....and don't let the Beaver mess with the motor

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Hold on there, after further review with the stinking manual there appears to be some hope that the problem is not under the flywheel. It says to elimiated the key switch and harness and check for spark. But it doesnt say exactly how to perform this test. Over the years of working with cars I have found that messing with electrical stuff without knowing what you are doing is a sure way to damage something.

So how do I perform a test to check for spark that eliminates the key switch and wire harness?

Eddie Haskel has some ideas but I dont think he knows what he is talking about.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Easiest way is to unplug the big round engine harness connector, then use a jumper wire to energize the starter solenoid. You'll have to use the choke to kill the engine.

P.S. I don't think many parents would nickname their kid "The Beaver" now and days.......

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

I disconnected the wiring harness then hooked up all but the pos side of the jumper cables between the starter and the battery. Pulled a plug and held it next to the block and had the Beav touch the pos battery post. It cranked over slowly but no spark. Several tries, hesitant cranking but no spark.

The manual also suggested testing the cut out switch. Removed the wires to this and cranked her over and still no spark. So I guess its under the fly wheel.

 

[lindy46]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Yup - coils, points, condensers and new wires while you're under there, (and plugs).

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Looking through the parts available here I see three different manufactures (Sierra, Mallory and CDI) of the ignition parts I need. Any advice on which one to go with? The price is pretty much the same for all of them. Think I should pull the parts first and see that they look like the picture of the replacements? I'm used to doing that for cars --- having gone round the block too many times chasing down the right part.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

They will all fit. I use the Sierra ones, but for no particular reason.
I wouldn't take the parts off until you're ready to go, then do one side at a time so you have a reference to look at. If you take all of the parts off and then try to put the new ones on, it may not go well.......

 

[ryendube]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

wait are you using a spark tester or you still trying to ground to a painted surface......

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

I don't have a spark tester but i did find an unpainted spot on the head of the bolt that attaches the bracket for the pull start mechanism to the block. Actually I guess that would be the head. Not the block. Does that make a difference? No spark there. Never heard of a spark tester. I assume thats a tool not a person.

I agree about only disassembling one side at a time. That strategy was a real savior one time years ago while doing drum brakes on an old car.

 

[Andre]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Make sure you read the guide on installing your coils as it's very important to align the coils flush with the edge of the base so they don't extend too far out and touch the flywheel.

Andre

 

[clintmn]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

OK, I noticed you disparaged the electric shift. I just bought an electric shift,and reverse does not seem to work properly. Am I screwed?

 

[Willyclay]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

What kind of manual are you using?

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

Golly Mr. Cleaver, you should read the Top Secret file at the top of the Johnson/Evinrude forum. It'll tell you step-by-step how to get your 40 hp runnin again...then you can take Wally, the Beav and Larry to the lake!

 

[ward cleaver]

Re: 1961 Johnson 40hp doesn't fire - repair or part out?

I am using a SELOC manual. It looks pretty good.

Of course, you are correct Commander. I really need to go thru all the steps listed in Top Secrets. I started out just trying to figure out whether or not this outboard was worth saving. But now I can see that it really wouldnt take that much effort or money to do the job more thoroughly and avoid more problems down the line if I did actually get it running. I'm off to buy a spark tester from the Schucks down the street. My thinking now is that since this motor has been sitting for who-knows-how-long and I'm having trouble now I ought to just replace the cheap ignition parts, the water pump and the lower end oil, maybe even the floor mats.