Oops I messed up!!!

[luckyinkentucky]

I was going over the checklist I made last September when I put my boat up for the winter, and I noticed that I didn't add fuel stabilizer to the tank OR add fogging oil to the engine before putting her up for the winter.

I have close to 30 gallons in the tank as it sits now, and my engine has been sitting all winter without fogging oil in it.


Is there anything I should do BEFORE I fire it up for the first time today?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

hope your fuel is stll good. if you do not have a fuel/Water separating filter install one.

 

[David Greer]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

if nothing else, disconnect your fuel line and pump some into a jar; if it's not pure, dump it all. Once the e-10 has broken down you can't even run the "good" part. You are risknig a random break-down and a carb job even if you get it started; once you start bouncing around all kinds of stuff will break loose.
Try not to remember how expensive the gas was when you bought it last year!

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

if nothing else, disconnect your fuel line and pump some into a jar; if it's not pure, dump it all. Once the e-10 has broken down you can't even run the "good" part. You are risknig a random break-down and a carb job even if you get it started; once you start bouncing around all kinds of stuff will break loose.
Try not to remember how expensive the gas was when you bought it last year!

I don't buy gas with E10 in it. I only use Marathon or Exxon fuel.

I talked to a guy at Sea Foam today, and he told me I should be ok. He said to mix 2 cans into my tank, and let it sit for a few hours. Then he said to start it up and let it run for 10 minutes at idle. Now I'm going to wait for 48 hours to start it again, and all of the buildup, if any is there, should be dissolved. I'll keep you all updated.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

A few folk around here have made the same error. All but one of them got away with it.
Good Luck.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

Gas doesn't go bad as fast as people think it does so you should be fine, I mowed yesterday for the first time and it hasn't run since the first week of October, didn't add any gas to it and it ran fine, my winter prep was to park it and turn it off.

Throw some Sea foam in it and get some fresh gas in when you can but I wouldn't sweat it.

You don't say what motor you have, if it is a 2 stroke put a squirt of oil in the cylinders and let the motor turn over for a bit without starting, if a 4 stroke same thing, let it build up some oil pressure before you actually start it.

 

[special_kaye]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

Gas doesn't go bad as fast as people think it does so you should be fine, I mowed yesterday for the first time and it hasn't run since the first week of October, didn't add any gas to it and it ran fine, my winter prep was to park it and turn it off.

That's the same "winter" prep I use on my lawn mower, lawn tractor, and gas weedeater. I don't really have a winter here but we do have a dry season where the grass doesn't need cut. Actually can't remember the last time I cut the grass, it's been that long. Probably around October or September. Went out the other day, the lawnmower and weed eater started right but but I had to charge the tractor battery. Once I did that, it fired right up.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

I dont get the gas going bad thing. My boat holds 140 gallons. Some winters it sits for months. I have an aluminum tank and use e10 from Sams club, I never add stabil I'd need several gallons of it. I just keep the tank filled to keep the water vapor down and let it set, never ever had a problem (the humidity here is always at least 70%) even on years when I only used the boat a dozen times. I can imagine a small carb engine with little bowls haveing problems with varnish due to eveporation.

All my friends have big boats with even bigger tanks and they dont have problems either. I'm talking boats that hold several hundred gallons and set tied to their docks some are very rarely used. They dont even keep them filled. (BTW we all have good filters).

How often do you see these fuel related problems happening on a boat that has set for the winter? Is e10 really that bad? Is the freezing weather the problem? I know it has the ability to absorb lots of moisture but how often does this actually happen? If it's one in a 250,000 stabil must be making a bundle! Is FUD the factor? (Fear, Uncertainty and Deception)

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

I dont get the gas going bad thing. My boat holds 140 gallons. Some winters it sits for months. I have an aluminum tank and use e10 from Sams club, I never add stabil I'd need several gallons of it. I just keep the tank filled to keep the water vapor down and let it set, never ever had a problem (the humidity here is always at least 70%) even on years when I only used the boat a dozen times. I can imagine a small carb engine with little bowls haveing problems with varnish due to eveporation.

All my friends have big boats with even bigger tanks and they dont have problems either. I'm talking boats that hold several hundred gallons and set tied to their docks some are very rarely used. They dont even keep them filled. (BTW we all have good filters).

How often do you see these fuel related problems happening on a boat that has set for the winter? Is e10 really that bad? Is the freezing weather the problem? I know it has the ability to absorb lots of moisture but how often does this actually happen? If it's one in a 250,000 stabil must be making a bundle! Is FUD the factor? (Fear, Uncertainty and Deception)

What's not to get about gas going bad?? Do you get how soda goes flat when opened to the atmosphere? Volatile liquids get contaminated and fouled when open to the atmosphere, especially one that's full of moisture.

E-10, which is almost always closer to 25% Ethanol, so it's all more like E25, causes phase separation in gas, the phase separation is when the alcohol phases out of the gasoline and what does alcohol do.....sucks water in, water is heavier than gasoline, therefore you get a bunch of water sitting in the bottom of your tank, which is where you fuel intakes are.

140 gallons of gas is not that much, the smaller of my boats holds 250, and that only takes 2 $12 bottle of Sta-Bil or Star-Tron in the fall to preserve. The twin 200's on that boat are probably worth about $25-$30K......what do you think happens when any engine tries to burn water.....let's just say it's a hell of a lot more expensive than $12.

I never understand these threads....you own a boat, you know NOTHING on a boat is cheap, but yet you try to get away with doing nothing to it, or balk at $25 to keep your fuel stable. What??


If you forgot to stabilize your fuel over the winter, well what can you do, everybody forgets stuff. My advise is to buy Star-Tron and dump it in and let it sit for a day, then you should be fine.

SeaFoam isn't really a fuel treatment or stabilizer, I don't care what it says on the can, it says it can do everything, how can it decarb and need to be blow out after 15 minutes, but still be a fogging oil that's good to leave in for 4 months, it's more of an engine cleaner/decarb that can be injested through the fuel.

I am kind of boggled that people are comparing an outboard to a friggin lawnmower, a lawnmower would run on **** if you put it in the tank. And how much of a tragedy would it be if you seized up a lawnmower engine, or scored a cylinder wall and lost compression.....it wouldn't be, throw it out and buy another one. But wait until you suck water in or run some crap through an injector or carb jet, when you are out on the water or 40 miles offshore, it's gonna be worse than your grass being long for a few days.

I have seen carb jets rot, pistons blow out blocks and holes in top of pistons, all due to water in the fuel, the least you see of bad fuel is just crappy running and stalling, but still all of that could have been avoided by spending a few bucks on Sta-Bil or Star-Tron.....really makes no sense.

Keep doing nothing and think you're saving money, wait until you get the bill from the shop, see how much you saved then.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

I've had a few issues with Stabil over the years, I bought a case of small Stabil bottles, the instructions said one bottle to 20 gallons, which was perfect since i had twin 20 gallon tanks. I filled both tanks, added a bottle to each, fogged the motor, drained the carbs, drained the filter, and parked it in the garage for the winter. It sat since November 14, till March 1st, the gas smelled fine, I cranked the motor a bit to clear out the oil and winterizing, put in fresh plugs, and pumped up the bulb, and proceeded to attempt to start the motor. It wouldn't even cough. I checked the fuel bowls, both full, the plugs were wet but it wouldn't run. I pulled the fuel line, when out and got a fresh 6 gallons of gas and premixed a new batch, and it started right up on the new fuel. Even once warm, it would not run on that fuel. It wouldn't even fire in the mower.

I had about 5 gallons of fuel from that same batch still in the fuel caddy, un treated, which I found runs fine, I did a test on a smaller amount, and adding the Stabil all but ruined the gas?
Nothing would run on it. The gas smells fine, looks fine but won't fire in an engine? It will burn with a match, but slowly.
A neighbor did the same thing with his convertible, he treated his fuel for the winter and couldn't get the engine to run on it this year. What amazed me was how little of it it took to make the fuel not burn. Just a splash in a quart of fuel kept my mower from starting even when it was already hot.
I didn't treat my garden tractor, or my roto tiller, and both ran fine, and I was able to run my 9.5 hp motor on a tank of fuel I mixed and didn't treat from last July.
Does Stabil affect the volatility of the fuel?
I bought two types of Stabil, one said for 2 strokes and one was the old original verson in the small metal 1 or 2 oz. cans.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

I don't particularly like Sta-Bil either, it doesn't treat the Ethanol related fuel problems. I use Star-Tron and I would say it's the best stuff there is for fuel treatment and storage. I use it on every fill up for maintenance and as a stabilizer over the winter.

Your situation is one reason I don't fill up before the winter. You never know what quality gas you're getting, so if you fill up at the end of the season and you just happen to get bad gas, now you have a full tank or two of bad gas to deal with in the Spring.

There's more moisture in the air in the summer, so unless you always have a full tank or tanks in the summer you are gonna get condensation in the fuel, especially if the boat sits in the water, so why would you need to keep it full over the winter when there is way less moisture in the air? Use Star-Tron and use good filters and you will be fine.

I treat whatever I have left in the tank that I have been running at the end of the season. I double treat with Star-Tron for winter and use 93 octane to fill up in the Spring, as Ethanol tends to cause gas to lose octane over storage, so you don't want to be running an 85 Octane fuel through your engine when you start up in the Spring.

I'd also advise against draining your carbs in the fall before storage, all you do by doing that is leave a lot of air in those fuel bowls to evaporate whatever fuel you didn't get out, and that will just cause varnish to build up. Just pump your carbs full before you cover it, and you should be fine, if possible leave and opening in the cover so you can pump the carbs up every now and then.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

Cricket -

Not to be fanning the flames here but isnt gas vapor heavier than air. This would lead me to think that the gas would evaporate and lie as a layer above the liquid fuel in the tank thus protecting the fuel from both further evaporation and the ability to accept moisture.

Just throwing this out there for a point of discussion. Not arguing.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

Richard, not arguing at all, I am not sure if gas vapor is heavier than air, but in any case, the tank is vented to the atmosphere, and the fuel is constantly expanding and contracting, and when it contracts it pulls outside air in from the vent.

This is just straight outside air, so based on however humid that air is determins how much moisture is pulled in.

It's an interesting theory, and it would be nice if it were true, but then I doubt there would be any water in any gas tanks, and no tanks would ever rot out from the inside, and there would be no need for a fuel/water separating filter.

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

Thank you!

Just wonderin' - I'm always wonderin'

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

This from The USCG Boating Safety Circular #85
http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/pdfs/BSC85_1.pdf

Ethanol, being alcohol based, absorbs water very
well. This is a bit of a double-edged sword for the
marine industry. Marine fuel systems are very
susceptible to water intrusion. E10 has the ability to
absorb a certain amount of water into solution and
simply allow it to be burned by the engine. As an
improvement over MTBE gasoline, which can hold
about 600 ppm in solution, E10 can hold 6,000 to
7,000 ppm in solution. Meaning, if you have a 100-
gallon (378.5 l) tank it could hold up to .6 ? .7 gallons
(2.3?2.6 l) of water in solution.

The problem for the
ethanol alternative comes with ?phase separation.?
That?s what happens when the fuel is saturated beyond
its capacity to hold water in solution. The water and
gasoline actually separate, and the gasoline floats on
top of the water. With MTBE you could simply pump
the water out from under the gasoline, or let your
filters remove the water, and burn any gasoline that
remained. With E10, ethanol blends more easily with
water than it does with gasoline. When phase
separation occurs in E10, the ethanol is pulled out of
the gas and stays with the water. This result is two
solutions, neither of which is good for engine or fuel
system. The gasoline left behind now has no
oxygenate; it shouldn?t be burned in the engine and
must be disposed of. The water left behind now
contains a high concentration of ethanol; this solution
is highly corrosive and damaging to any materials it
may be in contact with in the fuel system. The only
solution to dealing with E10 that has phase separated
is to dispose of the whole load of fuel, clean the tank,
and start fresh with a new load of E10.

Every precaution must be taken to keep water out
of fuel in storage tanks and on board. Checking fill
caps and fittings for proper gaskets, and insuring that
vent systems are up to spec, are two ways of being
certain your fuel system is sound.

E10?s ability to absorb water has yet another
drawback: it can absorb water directly from the
atmosphere through the vent while simply sitting in
the tank. In just 100 days at 70% humidity, E10 can
absorb enough water to phase separate. The shelf life
of E10 is only 60?90 days if left without treatment.
Gasoline ?oxidizes? when exposed to air. That is, it
loses its volatility over time. A good nonalcohol fuel
stabilizer (we don?t want to add even more alcohol to
the mix) is highly recommended at all times in your
fuel. There are several products on the market that
will do a great job. But the key for any boatyard or
boater is to not leave a boat for long periods of time
with a large load of fuel aboard. If the yard or owner
knows there will be an extended delay between trips
out, then leave the tank low and refill just before the
next trip out. In general, the more the boat is used,
the better off it will be.

When it comes to winter storage, a boatyard should
run the tank down as low as possible at the end of the
season and treat what is left for the winter. That of
course goes against traditional thinking in terms of
condensation, but: better a small amount of water from
condensation than a tank full of bad gas.

Looks like I need to update my keep it full all winter theory

 

[special_kaye]

Re: Oops I messed up!!!

I am kind of boggled that people are comparing an outboard to a friggin lawnmower, a lawnmower would run on **** if you put it in the tank.

A two-stroke engine is a two-stroke engine whether it's hooked to a spinning blade, a spinning string, or a spinning propeller.