MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

[Mark42]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

You might want to cut larger holes, or more of them. Just to be on the safe side, a 4" hole saw would probably be the way to go.

I'm sure that eventually, some water will get in somewhere, somehow. It is inevitable. The good news is the polyurathne foam is what is used for floating decks and mooring balls, etc. So being in constant contact with water and still performing well bodes very well for the foam in your boat that will come in contact with very little water.

I read one test where a polyurathane foam block was weighted and sunk in 8 ft of water for months at a time. No measurable degredation of the foam was detected.

 

[Ezrider_92356]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

i don't see a problem with the no stringer foam idea, thats how the Boston whalers were made

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Thanks Mark, will go with 4" holes. Obviously you're right about the longevity of the foam, you've done your homework on it. My statement reflects what was said by the manufacturer. I think it's probably just a "CYA" statement on their part. Looking forward to going ahead with the foaming at some point!

 

[FreeGypsy]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

this is very informative thanks guys!!! Im a 100% rookie and just got my boat today ready to decide how screwed I am lol. I think im going to do mine pretty much the same way hopefully you get around to yours first as Im going to be starting inspection and rot removal this weekend any tips on where and how to start my inspection so I do not tear up more than I have to?

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

FreeGypsy,

Welcome to what seems to be turning into a Gypsy Caravan!

On inspection, start with the obvious. Look over the hull exterior for major cracks, holes, etc. Especially in the areas of the Bow hook and around the outside corners of the transom. Also determine if any beaching/trailering wear needs to be repaired.

Remove the Aluminum cover from the top of the transom and see if there is any separation of the underlying fiberglass. If there is, there's a good possibility that the transom has either started to rot or is fully rotted.

From inside the boat, keep a small hammer handy and walk around the floor feeling for weak spots. If you feel one, tap with the hammer. Rotten wood will have a dull thud. If the floor feels bouncy in the center then you most likely have rotted stringers. If you find anything suspicious, some slightly more destructive inspection will be required. In particular with this boat check the corners of the fiberglass floor where the Bowrider section meets the main deck in between the rider and driver consoles. If there is any breakage or cracks in the fiberglass corners, this idicates that the stringers, deck, or both may have rot in that area.

Check the fiberglass on the floor itself. If it's worn out but the wood is ok, you should consider reglassing the floor. Check the fiberglass at the edges of the hull around the floor for holes or breakage. There should be a solid fiberglass seal around the entire floor.

Check the bilge well at the back of the boat. If any of the wood is rotted there, you may have more problems under the deck.

To check under the deck, using a saws-all or Jig saw, cut an 8"x8" or so square out of the floor starting about 4 inches in front and center of the Bilge well. Then dig the foam out from below the hole all the way down to the hull. If there is any water in there or the foam is wet, you can almost bet that there are problems with the stringers as well as the underside of the deck.

To check the transom for rot start with the hammer tap method. Again good wood will sound nice and have a sharp tone. Rotted wood will give a dull thud. If you suspect there is rot. From the inside of the boat, using about a 3/8 drill marked at a depth of 1 1/4 inches with masking tape, drill holes into the transom up to the tape in 4 inch intervals from top to bottom in the center of the transom. If the wood chips coming out of the hole as you're drilling are nice and dry, you lucked out! If they come out wet or water seeps from the drilled holes, you're looking at a transom replacement. If it's only partially rotted you may have other repair options although I feel the best is total replacement.

I think that's about it for general inspection. If anyone else knows of something I missed, chime in!

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Oh, almost forgot Andy! On the Gunwale...

My seats are also molded to the gunwale, if you pull the covers off underneath the consoles you'll see a problem with pulling the entire gunwale off (which was my 1st intention). If yours was constructed the same as mine, MFG used screws through the rubrail with square nuts on the inside of the hull to attach the Gunwale to the hull. You can't get at a good portion of them to put the Gunwale back on. I belive MFG did the Gunwale in 2 sections attaching the Gunwale 1st and then glassing in the seat and floor section. you might want to check that out before starting to pull the rubrail.

Mine is a little different, the floor in the bow is NOT part of the seats. I think I should be okay in that department.

Thanks a lot for posting those pictures. Looking at them has made me realize something about my boat. When I bought it, the owner told me that the previous owner put in a new deck a few years ago. I think the way he did it (at least by the pictures I see here) is that he cut away and removed the area pointed out in green. Then added some cheesy laminated wood supports to hold up the dash. Now the dash is sagging inwards on both sides. I am going to have to rebuild the dash somehow. I will add some actual pics once I take some. That being said, I think it will be easy to rip up the old deck and replace it now.

I have the same problems with the consoles sagging, so to speak. I am also going to fab up something, as well as some support for the bow seats.

FreeGypsy,

Welcome to what seems to be turning into a Gypsy Caravan!

Aint that the truth!!!

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Andy,

Using your pic, here's the thing...

It's not a big problem getting the Gunwale off. It's putting it back on. The Blue line I've drawn at the top inner side of the gunwale is where I believe MFG attached the Seat and Console sections to the Gunwale. The Red line indicates approximately the level of where the inner nuts are. I've also drawn a cross section to illustrate an inner view. IF you can get your arm up in there from under the seats, then you're in good shape to put the Gunwale back on. If not, I wouldn't pull it at all. I don't know about yours, but on mine they used plain steel screws and square nuts and, of course, they're rusted solid. If you've determined that you would be able to get up in there to re-attach the gunwales, it's probably easier to just grind the heads off the screws from the outside and push the rest of the screw to the inside of the hull.

Also, because of that seat configuration, you may not have to pull the Gunwale at all because the floor is nearly totally accessable. There may be just a very small area under the consoles that may be tough to get at but I expect that once you cut the fiberglass matting from around the edge of the plywood, it should pull right out of there. I'd try that 1st before pulling the Gunwale.

Have fun!

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Well folks, did some more work on the Gypsy today. It was really bugging me that I couldn't get the rest of the wood out from under the Bowrider section. So I came up with a plan. Not necessarily a good one, but a plan nevertheless.

It required a sawz-all, roto-zip, a dremel tool with a 1/4" router bit, a small automotive floor jack, and a lot of swearing. Just loads of fun!

I cut out the floor section of the bowrider area (The only way I could see to do it without cutting the entire bowrider section out) and then cut as much of the fiberglass holding the floor in as I could get at with the sawz-all. Then I cut as much of the areas I couldn't get at with the sawz-all with the roto-zip. Then I got at the rest of it by jacking a seat as far as I dared and using the dremel to rout out the rest. What a pain! Got 'er done though. I feel better now thanks.

At 1st, I wasn't all that concerned about getting all of the old wood out because I was going to foam, so just as long as the old wood was dried out, who cares? Well, I noticed this morning that MFG had glassed in a 1/2" chunk of ply underneath the Bowrider floor, that sits on the main floor, and it was rotted. So, not much sense in putting a new floor in without fixing that. Without the additional support of that chunk of ply the fiberglass floor had started to crack. Can't have that! I'm really glad I did it. ALL of the wood was shot. Not really looking forward to the additional glass work though.

The pics...

The floor I cut out.

The underside of the floor I cut out. Notice the rot towards the wide end. Goes half way up the length.

A shot up the center. All nice and clean now. Ready for new floor supports.

Sorry for the blurry pic!

Coming soon to a forum near you in surround sound and Technicolor...

Figuring how much foam I'll need.

 

[newbie_owner]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Good job man!

I think I am going to do my restore this winter (I live in Ottawa, lots of winter to do the work)

Thanks for all the updates, it will make my job much easier.

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Ah, Ottowa, lots and lots of winter there! Hope you've got a heated garage with plenty of ventilation. And nothing you don't want covered in fiberglass dust! I'll be working on this thing on and off all summer. Keep lookin' for updates. I should have one tomorrow on how much foam I'll need to buy.

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

As promised, here 'tis. The Foam Estimate. Because of the odd shape of the hull it was going to be very hard through stanndard tape measurements to figure out how much foam was going to be needed.

I took Mark42's idea of filling it with water and see how many gallons it took.

The theory was to level the boat front to back and side to side and fill it with water, taking an initial reading of my water meter, and then another when the boat was full. Subtract the difference in readings and then convert the result to Cubic Feet.

The water meter readings and their results worked fine. The leveling theory didn't turn out as I had expected. So, in retrospect, it's best to have three points of level adjustment available AS YOU'RE DOING THE FILLING, one at the tounge of the trailer, and one on each axle. To get what I felt would be acceptable results for the foam estimate I had to re-adjust the boat a couple of times.

The results. The boat took 122 gals to fill to floor level, leaving just a small area in the bow that would not get measured. So I over-estimated to 130 gals and then used an online converter to get the square footage.

122 gal(US Liq) = 16.3090 ft? - That works out to just a little over a cubic foot per the lenght of the boat. Don't know if you could use that as a rule of thumb or not, but thought I'd throw it out there for use in MFG Gypsy's.

So I would need one of US Composites FOAM-0480 80 LB Kits which covers 20 Cubic Feet at $244.00.

This is also a good time to look under the boat for any leaks that couldn't be seen. Luckily my hull's dry as a bone underneath.

Unfortunately for me right now, The foam job's gonna have to wait. I'm going to go ahead and do a standard stringer/floor replacement with a lean towards foaming later.

Sorry guys. I know there were some of you who were really very interested in seeing the foam job done. I was too. I'm laid off and running on unemployment so the cost of the foam is just undoable at the moment. Too big a chunk-o-cash to dump all at once. Damn this economy! IF something changes where I can afford it I'll go ahead with the foaming plans.

But stay tuned, will continue to provide pics of the stringer, transom, and floor replacement.

My new pool ...

 

[newbie_owner]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Yeah, Ottawa has a long cold winter. I will find an empty heated garage to do my repairs.

Not sure exactly how I am going to do it yet. I will have to way the cost factor as well.

Thanks again

 

[woosterken]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Driven1,check your PM box

woosterken

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Good job man!

I think I am going to do my restore this winter (I live in Ottawa, lots of winter to do the work)

Thanks for all the updates, it will make my job much easier.

Too bad we werent a little closer, we could help each other out. I'm about 2 hours from ottawa. Maybe when you get started I can take a ride out there on a saturday to see how you are doing it... I am going to be doing mine this winter too. Convinced my wife that a budget of $1500 would be appropriate. I think I am going to do some new seats at the same time.

BTW, I dont recall seeing a pic of yours... got one to share?

As promised, here 'tis. The Foam Estimate. Because of the odd shape of the hull it was going to be very hard through stanndard tape measurements to figure out how much foam was going to be needed.

I took Mark42's idea of filling it with water and see how many gallons it took.

The theory was to level the boat front to back and side to side and fill it with water, taking an initial reading of my water meter, and then another when the boat was full. Subtract the difference in readings and then convert the result to Cubic Feet.

The water meter readings and their results worked fine. The leveling theory didn't turn out as I had expected. So, in retrospect, it's best to have three points of level adjustment available AS YOU'RE DOING THE FILLING, one at the tounge of the trailer, and one on each axle. To get what I felt would be acceptable results for the foam estimate I had to re-adjust the boat a couple of times.

The results. The boat took 122 gals to fill to floor level, leaving just a small area in the bow that would not get measured. So I over-estimated to 130 gals and then used an online converter to get the square footage.

122 gal(US Liq) = 16.3090 ft? - That works out to just a little over a cubic foot per the lenght of the boat. Don't know if you could use that as a rule of thumb or not, but thought I'd throw it out there for use in MFG Gypsy's.

So I would need one of US Composites FOAM-0480 80 LB Kits which covers 20 Cubic Feet at $244.00.

This is also a good time to look under the boat for any leaks that couldn't be seen. Luckily my hull's dry as a bone underneath.

Unfortunately for me right now, The foam job's gonna have to wait. I'm going to go ahead and do a standard stringer/floor replacement with a lean towards foaming later.

Sorry guys. I know there were some of you who were really very interested in seeing the foam job done. I was too. I'm laid off and running on unemployment so the cost of the foam is just undoable at the moment. Too big a chunk-o-cash to dump all at once. Damn this economy! IF something changes where I can afford it I'll go ahead with the foaming plans.

But stay tuned, will continue to provide pics of the stringer, transom, and floor replacement.

My new pool ...

How long did it take to drain all the water out after you were done? How long to dry up?

I think I am going to fill with water as well, but more for the purpose of checking for leaks in the hull.

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

I guess it took about 20 mins or so to drain. Where it's parked in my side yard, the ground is real gravely. Eons ago, the valley I live in was part of a huge river, so because of that ancient flow and glacial melting the ground here is nothing but gravel pretty much. I'd say in only took about 15 mins for the water to get sucked into the ground. The point. It's going to vary depending on your soil conditions.

And so the wifey wouldn't get cranky about the "wasted water" I watered her flowerbeds with a good portion of the water.

The boat itself dried out in about a half hour. It happened to be pretty hot out that day.

Also, someone asked what year my Gypsy is. The BIA Plate doesn't show a manufacture date. I did some brochure research over on fiberglassics and I believe it's a 1970 based on year comparisons. It looks like in '71 that MFG went to the Black Stenciled Logo on the rear sides of the boat. The '70 models have the Chromed Metal Logo.

 

[FreeGypsy]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

looking good!! the cost of the foam is gonna be more than i thought i guess gonna have to make a decision there not sure what it will be yet. . . with my boat it seems there is a raised section in the bow. . does that section get filled with foam as well or just the rear? in this pic you can see where the floor is raised thats the area im talking about

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

The boat finally got a few drops of blood out of me. So while I nurse my grinder bite for a bit, thought I'd give a quick update and toss out a couple of questions.

I've cut down all of the stringer fiberglass to within about 1 1/2 inches above the hull. This allows me to clean the fiberglass up on all sides easily, hence the grinder bite. It will also allow me to glass the new stringers in the same position they were with little hassle. I've also done a lot of other prep grinding around the old floor edges as well. Have a little more to go on that.

I expect to have my plywood to get started on the transom and stringers later this week.

The pics...

Now for the questions...

I was in the hardware store looking for some PL Premium Adhesive for the floors. Of course, as with just about anything around here, they didn't have any. But they did have an ACE brand polyurethane adhesive, about 4 bucks a tube that looked like it should do the job. It claims to be waterproof and adheres to almost anything including PVC and plastics. Anybody had any experience with it? Good idea or bad?

I don't know if you can see it or not in the second pic, but in grinding the foam residue off some of it is left between the weave in the glass that was holding the stringers down. This residue is very hard. Almost like resin. I've ground most of it until I reached the woven. Does anyone think that those little bits of foam residue will create an adherence problem when I start glassing?

Thanks!

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Driven, what kind of disc are you using in your grinder?

 

[Driven1]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Andy,

I'm using a standard metal grinding disc.

 

[Andy in NY]

Re: MFG Gypsy 15 Tri-Hull Restore advice needed

Okay, you will have to pardon my ignorance... I have never used a grinder before. What do you do to prevent gouging the hull?