Hi rev before gear engage.

[tigerhack]

Well i have notice engine will rev a bit hi before forward or reverse is selected , i have my shift interupt switch disconnected(i know it is a bad thing to do) but here is the technical part i only have a b+ and tach on my distributor , so i am wondering should i1.brake the ignition wire to the distributer bring it series through the Shift interupt switch of course removing the ground wire, or should i 2.just put a relay on by using the shift interupt switch as the ground for the relay and b+ open and close at relay terminals will there be enuff time response in engine dis engage ? i know this is a bit technical but thanks in advance.

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

3. None of the above.
4. Answer some questions when they are asked. Like in your other post where I asked what color the wires were going to your distributor, or could you take some pictures or any of the other questions that were asked.
5. If the engine is reving, the shift and throttle cables are out of adjustment.
6. You DO NOT have a B+ and a tach wire as the only 2 wires on your distributor if your distributor is the original.

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

3. None of the above.
4. Answer some questions when they are asked. Like in your other post where I asked what color the wires were going to your distributor, or could you take some pictures or any of the other questions that were asked.
5. If the engine is reving, the shift and throttle cables are out of adjustment.
6. You DO NOT have a B+ and a tach wire as the only 2 wires on your distributor if your distributor is the original.

it is not a original distributer, the colour is purple for the b+ and grey for the Tach . the older distributer was damage , so i use this one off the use engine .

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

What kind of distributor is it? Points, Electronic. Mallory? Prestolite? Delco? Is it actually a marine distributor?????

Why you couldn't have said that in your other post I don't know. You can't use the ignition amplifier with anything but the Thunderbolt distributor.

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

What kind of distributor is it? Points, Electronic. Mallory? Prestolite? Delco? Is it actually a marine distributor?????

Why you couldn't have said that in your other post I don't know. You can't use the ignition amplifier with anything but the Thunderbolt distributor.

yes don, i will look at the distributer when i go home this evening, but are we bypassing the fact that the shift interupt switch should be connected ?

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

Yes the shift interrupt switch needs hooked up, but since we don't know what kind of distributor you have, it's impossible to say if it will work at all with the switch.
Once we get all the good information, it's easy to figure out how to hook it up.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

a picture would be worth 1000 words about now as we have no clue as to manufactre or design of the :new: ign system but yes you gotta have the interrupt or it may become a dock buster.
remember the interrupt ONLY works when moving from an in gear position to N.
ONLY.
if it activates going from N to any gear most likly the lower shift cable is gone south.
lets try to fight one issue at a time

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

a picture would be worth 1000 words about now as we have no clue as to manufactre or design of the :new: ign system but yes you gotta have the interrupt or it may become a dock buster.
remember the interrupt ONLY works when moving from an in gear position to N.
ONLY.
if it activates going from N to any gear most likly the lower shift cable is gone south.
lets try to fight one issue at a time

i am having problem with my pictures size, thats why i havent post them yet , anyway thanks for the input..but do you know by chances how long the switch break the circuit for , i am thankful for the info that is given but same time dont want to be spoon feed, as a electrical and electronic engineer i will connect the switch myself , but i only want to do it of a safe way , get me ? i dont want it to open a relay with in miliseconds plus the manual switch adding to that time i dont know if it would stall the engine , get what i am saying ? so my main intention is to know what amount of time a engine take with the ignition off then back on before stalling , please my terms might not up to standard but i know what i am doing thanks in advance.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

an anganeeeer
now I know why we cant teach ya anything
by the way, were you involved in the design of the CIWS weapon system ?

ok, now I had my fun
to answer your question the switch closes as the tension on the lower shift cable increases. the increase when shifting from any in gear position to nutral is due to the back angle cut of the shift clutch and gear dog set up.
so to aide in pulling the clutch away from the gear you have to unload the prop shaft.
an easy way to do this is simply spring load the lower cable, as tension from the upper cable pulls on the lower it closes a switch grounding the - side of the ign coil(on a point type ign) causing momentary ign shutdown, now the clutch is free to pull away from the dog, releasing the spring and opening the switch, if all is working well and nothing is sticking or binding the operator really doesnt notice it unless he is shifting way to slow, a common problem I see mostly with engineers and airline pilots .had to get one last jab

sorry about the spelling, not my keyboard

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

an anganeeeer
now I know why we cant teach ya anything
by the way, were you involved in the design of the CIWS weapon system ?

ok, now I had my fun
to answer your question the switch closes as the tension on the lower shift cable increases. the increase when shifting from any in gear position to nutral is due to the back angle cut of the shift clutch and gear dog set up.
so to aide in pulling the clutch away from the gear you have to unload the prop shaft.
an easy way to do this is simply spring load the lower cable, as tension from the upper cable pulls on the lower it closes a switch grounding the - side of the ign coil(on a point type ign) causing momentary ign shutdown, now the clutch is free to pull away from the dog, releasing the spring and opening the switch, if all is working well and nothing is sticking or binding the operator really doesnt notice it unless he is shifting way to slow, a common problem I see mostly with engineers and airline pilots .had to get one last jab

sorry about the spelling, not my keyboard

So this interupt switch in so much way tie to the tach ? if so thats why a bad tach can close down a ignition system?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

So this interupt switch in so much way tie to the tach ? if so thats why a bad tach can close down a ignition system?

Ayuh,.........

Unfortunately,......
This brings Us back to where,.......

Nobody Knows What on earth you're running for an Ignition System...........

Go download Pacasa by Google so you can Resize your pictures,+ Post them.......
Maybe We can get somewhere if you would Just Identify Exactly What you've Got......

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

because on a gasoline point type ign, or even most electronic, the tach is an AC drag cup type. cheap to make fair accuracy and cheap to make.
the tach is normally tied into the -coil terminal. while the signal is technically a DC signal the peak voltage is about 175V. it acts similar to an AC signal thats been run through a clipper.
if the tach shorts to ground internally its just as if you had hooked a jumper lead to the negative coil tower to ground.
you really need to go back to your school books and look up inductive transformer and basic DC circuits.
remember all the coil is is a step up transformer it will step up a relativly small 12 volts with roughly 10 amps to a 7-20 Kv voltage with current in the milliamp range.
but like Bondo says, we really really need to know your exact set up.
the delco EST non ecu system,the prestolite BID and the mallory point system all work basically as above, the biggest difference is in the switch controlling primary ign coil current.

as the interrupt switch on a point type ign also ties into the coil primary negative terminal a bad or misadjusted switch can also interrupt ign.
the reason for using the negative terminal on a point type ign is when the interrupt switch is closed the coil can act as a load. if you used the positive side the current path would be from the keyswitch directly to ground which may lead to blown ign fuses.

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

because on a gasoline point type ign, or even most electronic, the tach is an AC drag cup type. cheap to make fair accuracy and cheap to make.
the tach is normally tied into the -coil terminal. while the signal is technically a DC signal the peak voltage is about 175V. it acts similar to an AC signal thats been run through a clipper.
if the tach shorts to ground internally its just as if you had hooked a jumper lead to the negative coil tower to ground.
you really need to go back to your school books and look up inductive transformer and basic DC circuits.
remember all the coil is is a step up transformer it will step up a relativly small 12 volts with roughly 10 amps to a 7-20 Kv voltage with current in the milliamp range.
but like Bondo says, we really really need to know your exact set up.
the delco EST non ecu system,the prestolite BID and the mallory point system all work basically as above, the biggest difference is in the switch controlling primary ign coil current.

as the interrupt switch on a point type ign also ties into the coil primary negative terminal a bad or misadjusted switch can also interrupt ign.
the reason for using the negative terminal on a point type ign is when the interrupt switch is closed the coil can act as a load. if you used the positive side the current path would be from the keyswitch directly to ground which may lead to blown ign fuses.

Boy i tell you sigh. i will just do my reseaches from now on...thanks for your conserable comments.... i might not have a degree but i am sure not stupid.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

did not infer you were stupid, just that all we can give is generic operation of a basic ign system.
I dont have a formal degree either, I did spend 6 years in the USN as an FC.
I have also been to many many technical schools starting in the 9th grade and I am 46 now. built my first 327 chevy before I had a drivers license.
also did not hurt that my father owned a wrecking yard since I was about 6 to about 13.

been certified on mercruiser,volvo,tohatsu,suzuki,mercury mariner,force and am curently a Yamaha master tech.
but it really doesnt matter who built it or where the physical operating characteristics of an articulated rod internal combustion engine remain the same.
suck,squeeze,bang and blow.
everything else just helps it go.
but nope, no college sheepskins on my wall, I was a fool as a youth.

there are actually some very good sites on the net that describe basic Fuel and Ignition as well as charging systems.
one of the best books ever for both beginner and pro is one I got at age 15, motors,chassis and electrical by petersen publishing. its out of print but copies are still avalible. read it and answer each set of questions at the end of the chapter and you can pass most ASE courses today.
if your going to do your own work an understanding of basic DC circuits as well as fuel delivery and 4 stroke theory is gonna be a must.
or your gonna waste a bunch of time and money while staying broke down.
so read up a bit, anything you dont understand post it, someone will be along with an answer. there are several very knowledgable techs here that can spell a lot better than I can.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

Boy i tell you sigh. i will just do my reseaches from now on...thanks for your conserable comments.... i might not have a degree but i am sure not stupid.

Ayuh,.......

We're up to 15 posts in this 2nd thread about your Ignition System,.......
Along with the 22 posts in This Thread,......

And you've made No Effort what so Ever to answer just 1 simple Question,.........
Which Is,........
What Is Your Distributor,..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..??..???...???...???...???...???

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

Really sad.
The question of how to hook up the shift interrup switch would be so simple to answer, and probably include a drawing. IF we knew what your distributor actually was.
One other note, I have seen and installed about every kind of distributor known to boating, but I have never seen one with a purple and a gray wire coming out of it.
Red and black, YES, White striped with reds and greens, yes, but never purple and gray. That, my friend, is why I have asked many times for the type distributor you have or even a picture of it if you didn't know.

Go to photobucket.com and upload your picture there, then just post the link here if the picture is too big, at least we will be able to see and probably identify it, then we can explain how to hook up your shift interrupt system and make it work.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

DonS, some of the replacement modules for the prestolite BID(which to my knowledge merc never used) had a gray and purple coming from the module. some were purple and black. marine power,pleasure craft ,volvo and a few others used the BID setup for a bit.
but for now all we can do is speculate as we stil dont know exactly what system we are disscussing.
kinda like last Dr visit, he asked where it hurts and I said mostly all over .

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

I put the BID distributor on my boat, it had a purple and black, I also have on out in my woodworking shop, also purple and black (I just looked to make sure), just never seen a gray wire.
I don't mind helping people as long as they want to help. tigerhack obviously doesn't want to help cure his own problems, he just wants to make it work the way he thinks it should work. Even if he doesn't really know or understand how (or why) it should actually work.
Personally, I'm fed up with it. Won't answer questions, won't post pictures, just want answers to to things that don't have answers. It's not just this thread, it's all that he has started.

 

[tigerhack]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

I put the BID distributor on my boat, it had a purple and black, I also have on out in my woodworking shop, also purple and black (I just looked to make sure), just never seen a gray wire.
I don't mind helping people as long as they want to help. tigerhack obviously doesn't want to help cure his own problems, he just wants to make it work the way he thinks it should work. Even if he doesn't really know or understand how (or why) it should actually work.
Personally, I'm fed up with it. Won't answer questions, won't post pictures, just want answers to to things that don't have answers. It's not just this thread, it's all that he has started.

Could you be kind enuff to wait for the pictures, i will soon post them. and i am not ignoring your rants but as a manner of being appreciative i will just persue to upload the pictures as asap. some pictures of my long stressed project are in photo bucket already (and apart from the back hoe that put the engine in everything was done by me with of course some help from the forum. thank you.http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh171/tigerhack/?action=view&current=Oldengine.jpg

 

[Don S]

Re: Hi rev before gear engage.

Could you be kind enuff to wait for the pictures, i will soon post them.

Of course I (and everyone else) will wait, no problem at all. The problem is when you just don't answer. It helps when you at least say it will take a few days. Then we know you will be answering our questions soon.

I can sure see why you changed engines!

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh171/tigerhack/Oldengine.jpg