wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Devious

Seaman
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
64
hey just wondering...

in the lake i play in, there are a bunch of sailboats, and for the most part they keep to their area and i keep to mine. i try to stay in this one cove that is like the unofficial play area, lots of tubers and skiiers and such. sometimes i'll see a sailboat zig-zagging through the play area.

i'm assuming they still have the right of way, and the person towing has to stop, and give way. how does sail power compare to having a person in the water?
 

tommays

Admiral
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Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Is it is so tight that you can not steer around the sailboat going 5 to 7 MPH ?


I have to pick my way through sailboat races all the time in places wear common sense on the part of the race committee seems to be marginal :rolleyes:



Tommays
 

Devious

Seaman
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
64
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

it isn't really super tight, just a pain because the sailboats don't turn 100' sooner. I don't know if they have any responsibility to stay out of my way when i'm clearly towing someone. Sometimes the sail guys easily get up to 20 mph.
 

Mischief Managed

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,928
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

The boat with poor directional control would typically be the stand-on boat but it would mean that the give-way captain would have to know that towing means far less maneuverability. I would not count on that...
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Nov 11, 2005
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51,019
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

power gives way to sail anytime. you are suppose to be driving (looking) far enough ahead, to avoid the situation. your spotter is watching the skier or tuber.
 

freddyray21

Commander
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
2,460
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

power always is the give way boat.
 

Hitech

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Sep 22, 2006
Messages
290
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

I'm not sure I remember correctly but I believe sail boats have to yeild right of way to someone towing a skier. That's what I always believed when sailing. But I'm not sure. Also, remember, if you are the "stand on boat" you should maintain your course, unless you believe a collision will result.

Quoted from http://www.sailingusa.info/sailing_safety.htm

Sailing vessels are the give-way-vessel under the following conditions: A sailboat is overtaking any other kind of vessel. When another boat is confined by a narrow channel, is confined by draft, is not under command, has reduced maneuverability such as if engaged in towing (not powerboats with water skiers with good maneuverability) or is a fishing vessel engaged in commercial fishing.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

i think you will find that towing a tube is NOT the same as Sea Tow towing a disabled Vessel which would not allow them to alter corse in a safe manner,and would have the right of way over a sailboat



The probelem with rules is the other rules that affect the first rule your reading :eek:




Tommays
 

Mischief Managed

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,928
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

I have to confess that I thought the original question was about towing a boat. Towing a skier or tube etc. gives one no special privileges, though some folks act like they should have them...
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

power gives way to sail anytime. you are suppose to be driving (looking) far enough ahead, to avoid the situation. your spotter is watching the skier or tuber.

Tahsasdaddy is right on the money. Non-motor boats always have the right away. Unless they are under motor power, then they are considered a motor boat.

Pay attention to the reference to a spotter. If you don't have a spotter and you are tubing/skiing/wakeboarding, you are in violation and being reckless. Tow lines should not be over 50 ft.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

I launch in South Jamesport NY

We and go out through a narrow channel with power and sail ,including hobie cats that only sail

It may be that people in on the east end are more mellow (there sure better than the Great south Bay )

It is just not a problem people just seem to have a reasonable amount of respect for each other for the 3 minutes your in the channel and they go boating:cool:


Tommays
 

ruf1967

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
82
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Power is the give-way vessel. The sailboat is restricted in its ability to maneuver.
 

cmcpherson

Banned
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
310
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Tahsasdaddy is right on the money. Non-motor boats always have the right away. Unless they are under motor power, then they are considered a motor boat.

Pay attention to the reference to a spotter. If you don't have a spotter and you are tubing/skiing/wakeboarding, you are in violation and being reckless. Tow lines should not be over 50 ft.

50 ft.??? Around here we don't do anything with a 50 ft. rope, 60 to 65 for tubing, 75 for skiing.
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

it isn't really super tight, just a pain because the sailboats don't turn 100' sooner. I don't know if they have any responsibility to stay out of my way when i'm clearly towing someone. Sometimes the sail guys easily get up to 20 mph.

Well they should be easy to see considering they have 175' of waterline...

Either that or they're racers. If they're racers, you may be better served by politely asking them to work with you a little...
 

Devious

Seaman
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
64
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

easy guys, i'm just asking for knowledges sake. i DO give them right away, and i DO have a spotter and all that nonsense. sometimes it would be easier if they opted to turn a little sooner, but no one is going to force them.
 

bjcsc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
1,805
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Yeah, watch out. This crowd is tough on jet skiers! Seriously, find out where they hang out and just go talk to them...no big deal...
 

freddyray21

Commander
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
2,460
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

Super tanker vs. 34 foot sloop, who's the give-way? Restricted maneuverability IS part of the equation.

you are mixing apples and oranges. There are different rules in that situation.


Navigation Rules?Traffic Laws of the Waterways

Collisions can be prevented easily if every vessel operator fulfills three major responsibilities.

1. Practice good seamanship.
It is the responsibility of every boat or PWC operator to take all necessary action to avoid a collision, taking into account the weather, vessel traffic, and limits of other vessels. Such action should be taken in ample time to avoid a collision and at a safe distance from other vessels.
2. Keep a proper lookout.
Failing to keep a sharp lookout is the most common cause of collisions. Every operator must keep a proper lookout, using both sight and hearing, at all times. Watch and listen for other vessels, radio communications, navigational hazards, and others involved in water activities.
3. Maintain a safe speed.
Safe speed is the speed that ensures you will have ample time to avoid a collision and can stop within an appropriate distance. Safe speed will vary depending on conditions such as wind, water conditions, navigational hazards, visibility, surrounding vessel traffic density, and the maneuverability of your boat or PWC. Always reduce speed and navigate with extreme caution at night and when visibility is restricted.

Navigation Rules: Definitions

For the purpose of the navigation rules, the following definitions apply.

* Vessel: Every kind of watercraft capable of being used as a means of transportation on water, including seaplanes
* Power-driven vessel: Any vessel propelled by machinery, including a sailboat using an engine
* Sailing vessel: Any vessel under sail and with no engine in use
* Vessel engaged in fishing: Any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing equipment that restricts maneuverability; however, this does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing equipment that does not restrict maneuverability
* Underway: Not anchored, tied to shore, or aground
* Vessels in sight of one another: One vessel can be observed visually from the other
* Restricted visibility: Any condition in which visibility is restricted by fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rainstorms, sandstorms, or any other similar cause
* Risk of collision: Any situation when an approaching vessel continues on a collision course (the bearing of the approaching vessel does not change), or when you are approaching a very large vessel

Encountering Other Vessels

There are rules that every operator must follow when encountering other vessels.

Two terms help explain these rules:

* Give-way vessel: The vessel that is required to take early and substantial action to keep well away from other vessels by stopping, slowing down, or changing course. Avoid crossing in front of other vessels. Any change of course and/or speed should be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel. (A series of small changes should be avoided.)
* Stand-on vessel: The vessel that must maintain its course and speed unless it becomes apparent that the give-way vessel is not taking appropriate action. If you must take action, do not turn toward the give-way vessel or cross in front of it.

The action a vessel operator should take when encountering another vessel depends on the answers to two questions.

* How are the two vessels propelled?
o Two power-driven vessels
o Two sailing vessels
o A power-driven vessel and a sailing vessel
* How are the two vessels approaching one another?
o Meeting head-on: A vessel operator sees another vessel ahead or nearly ahead
o Paths that cross: Two vessels are on crossing paths so as to involve risk of collision
o Overtaking: A vessel is coming upon another vessel from behind or nearly behind the other vessel

The rules that follow cover most of the situations you will encounter as a recreational boater. However, be aware of these exceptions to the rules.

* If you approach a vessel that has less maneuverability than your vessel, the other vessel will usually be the stand-on vessel (see Encountering Vessels With Less Maneuverability).
* If you are operating in a narrow channel, there are special considerations (see Operating In Narrow Channels).

The navigational rules that follow will be illustrated by diagrams and with Flash animations. (Most students will already have Flash installed. If not, follow this link to install the Flash Player.)
Flash icon


Remember?Every operator is responsible for avoiding a collision. In complying with the navigation rules, operators must consider all dangers of navigation; risk of collisions; and any special conditions, including the limitations of the vessels involved. These considerations may make a departure from the navigation rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

Power vs. Power
Two vessels meeting head-on, power vs. power

Neither vessel is the stand-on vessel. Both vessels should turn to starboard (the right).



Power vs. Sail
Two vessels meeting head-on, power vs. sail

The power-driven vessel is the give-way vessel. The sailing vessel is the stand-on vessel.


Paths That Cross

Power vs. Power
Two vessels meeting on paths that cross, power vs. power

The vessel on the port (left) is the give-way vessel. The vessel on the starboard (right) is the stand-on vessel.


Power vs. Sail
Two vessels meeting on paths that cross, power vs. sail

The power-driven vessel is the give-way vessel. The sailing vessel is the stand-on vessel.


Overtaking

Power vs. Power
Power-driven vessel overtaking another power-driven vessel

The vessel that is overtaking another vessel is the give-way vessel. The vessel being overtaken is the stand-on vessel.


Power vs. Sail
Sailboat overtaking power-driven vessel Power-driven vessel overtaking sailboat


The vessel that is overtaking another vessel is the give-way vessel, regardless of whether it is a sailing vessel or a power-driven vessel. The vessel being overtaken is always the stand-on vessel.


Sailing Vessel Encountering Sailing Vessel

If a sailing vessel with the wind on its port (left) side cannot determine whether a windward sailing vessel has the wind on the left or the right, it should give way to the windward vessel.

Wind On Same Side
Sailboats encountering with wind on same side

When two sailing vessels are approaching one another with the wind on the same side, the leeward sailing vessel is the stand-on vessel.


Wind On Different Sides
Sailboats encountering with wind on different sides

When two sailing vessels are approaching one another with the wind on different sides, the sailing vessel with the wind on its starboard (right) side is the stand-on vessel.

Remember?If operating a power-driven vessel, you must always give way to a sailing vessel unless the sailing vessel is overtaking your vessel.
Responsibilities Between Vessels

If operating a power-driven vessel, you must give way to:

* Any vessel not under command, such as an anchored or disabled vessel
* Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver, such as a vessel towing, laying cable, or picking up navigation markers, or a vessel constrained by its draft such as a large ship in a channel
* A vessel engaged in commercial fishing
* A sailing vessel unless it is overtaking

If operating a sailing vessel, you must give way to:

* Any vessel not under command
* Any vessel restricted in its ability to maneuver
* A vessel engaged in commercial fishing

Rendering Assistance?The navigation rules also require operators to stop and render assistance to a vessel in distress unless doing so would endanger their own vessel or passengers.
Operating in Narrow Channels

* A vessel in a narrow channel must keep as far to the edge of the channel on the vessel's starboard (right) side as is safe and practical.
* If you are operating a power-driven vessel heading upstream (against the direction of the current) on the Mississippi River system, all power-driven vessels coming toward you from the opposite direction have the right-of-way and you must give way.
* If operating a vessel less than 65.6 feet (20 meters) in length, a sailing vessel, a vessel engaged in fishing, or a vessel crossing the channel, you may not get in the way of vessels that can only navigate within the channel (such as a large ship).
* You must not anchor in a narrow channel, unless the circumstances require anchoring.
* You must use the appropriate sound signals and use caution while operating in a narrow channel when:
o Overtaking or being overtaken
o Your view is obstructed such as when you approach a bend in the channel
* If you are leaving a dock, slip, or tie-up mooring, you must give way to all approaching vessels.

Operating During Restricted Visibility

All operators should navigate with extreme caution if visibility is restricted. The following applies to vessels not in sight of one another.

* Every vessel must proceed at a safe speed given the conditions of restricted visibility. A power-driven vessel must have its engines ready to maneuver immediately.
* Unless a risk of collision does not exist, an operator who hears the fog signal of another vessel ahead, is in a close-quarters situation with another vessel ahead, or detects the presence of another vessel by radar must reduce speed to the minimum at which the vessel can be kept on course. If necessary, the operator should reduce speed to idle speed.
 

WillyBWright

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
8,200
Re: wind power vs. towing a person, right of way?

It's a speed and maneuverability heirarchy issue, mostly governed by common sense. An rowboat is faster and more maneuvarable than a canoe. A sailboat is faster and more maneuverable than a rowboat. A motorboat is faster and more maneuvarable than a sailboat. Common sense comes into play when a motorboater with no skier or tuber must yield to other motorboaters with. But sailboats almost never must yield to motorboats.

Zigzagging is not a frivolous activity designed to confound motorboaters. Sailboats cannot go directly into the wind. They can go 45 degrees either way of straight into the wind. So to get to Point A lying straight into the wind, they have to zigzag.

My signature used to read "You can lead a boat to water, but you can't make it think. Take a Safe Boating course." ;)
 
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