Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

[ziemann]

I know, I kinda hate these types of posts too, but since there is so much experience here I would be foolish not to ask you guys for some feedback. So, here is the story....

I originally set out to replace my old boat/ Nissan 50 TLDI with something a bit larger. I orginally had my heart set on a new Nissan 90 TLDI- in Montana there were some great dealers and the prices were great. Now that I have moved to Minnesota, there is virtually no dealer network and the prices here are extremely high for Nissan/Tohatsu. The best price I have found here is $9100 rigged. That is not even competitive here for a 90hp.

I then set my heart on a new E-Tec. I have found some fantastic deals on new E-Tecs here and they come in rigged almost $1000 less than a Nissan TLDI.

Yesterday, I ran into a dealer locally that has a brand new 2005 Lund 17' Mr. Pike with a brand new Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper to put on it. He states that there is no demand for the Johnson, therefor here would offer it to me at $5600 rigged w/ the BRP 2 year non-declining warranty. That is $2500 less than an E-Tec. I really have no experience with any outboards over 60 hp and people I have talked to state that the old Johnson design is reliable, smooth, hassle free. For those that have experience with them, what are your thoughts?????

Considerations:

1. The looper is going to use more fuel BUT, for $2500 less in initial investment, I can buy a heck of alot of fuel...

2. Resale down the road on the Johnson is going to be less- but there seems to be a loyal following still for simple 2 stroke outboards. They seem to pass the test of time and last forever...

3. I can actually work on the Johnson- it is a simple design. The E-Tec is a great motor from what I can tell, but if it breaks while I am in the Boonies in Canada, there is little I can do to diagnose it or fix it.

4. The Johnson will use more oil and is not as clean. I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. However to counter the smoke, I currently use Klotz premium synthetic 2 stroke in my snowmobiles and my Nissan TLDI outboard. It is virtually smoke free and doesn't stink. I would think if I use that in the Johnson, it will dramatically decrease the smoke and smell associated with the unclean burn.

5. The Johnson's weight is 335 pounds as opposed to the E-Tec's weight at 320 pounds. Both are extremely competitive compared to most 4 strokes.

6. I put my boats into some very shallow boat landings and weight is an issue. I have no interest in a 4 stroke for this reason. I have had previous experience with some great 2 strokes including an early 90's Mariner (Merc) 50 4 cylinder (gas hog, heavy, loved it), my Nissan 50 TLDI (loved it), a late 90's Johnson 2 cylinder 2 stroke (good motor, light, rattled alot though), a '01 Yamaha 50 4 stroke (still won't idle and troll down decent). If I am going to purchase a 2 stroke, I prefer the Johnson over the Merc 90 3 cylinder, or the Yamaha 90 3 cylinder even though they would be a bit lighter.

7. The VRO doesn't scare me- if checked and maintained (watching for air bubbles and hose problems, moisture problems, etc) it seems to work well now days.

8 THEN there comes a bit of nostalgia. With Johnson being killed off by BRP, I sorta feel sad to watch the Johnson brand fade away. This Johnson 90 has been discontinued and is the last of a dying breed, and it kinda appeals to me to have one of the last new Johnson 2 strokes.

So, here I sit at decision time. To say the least, I am dissappointed in Nissan/ Tohatsu, but there are some fantastic deals out there on competitive products. The factory rep for Tohatsu called me after I sent an email to Tohatsu, but even he admitted that there isn't a good dealer network here for me to purchase a new one. They make a fantastic product, but having a great dealer near you is priceless.

So, that leaves me to decision time. I am ready to buy a BRP product. Either the E-Tec or the Johnson probably will serve me well. I wonder how each will idle over the course of several hours each day...

Does anyone have any experience or insight they can lend to my decision making process?

Thanks to everyone in advance- Z

 

[gss036]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

You say you idle a lot,how much is a lot? The E-Tec will sip fuel compared to the Johnson and if $2,500.00 is not that big of a deal to you, I would buy the E-Tec. If you use it 500 hrs a year, might do the math and you probably will find the E-Tec will pay for itself in a short period of time with gas being around $3.00+ gal.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

i have a 1988 88 spl, which is the 90hp looper, without VRO. you could not buy it from me. it is the newest engine i own. it's as reliable as my old 1950's models. if your worried about gas prices, you shouldn't own a boat. true the etec are nice, but in my opinion they haven't proven themselves yet. another 10 years. we'll see. what's it going to cost to replace those electronics, after the warranty.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

A friend of mine in Northern Wisconsin owns a bass boat with a 90 Johnson on it and he trolls for walleye morning and evening nearly every day and has absolutely zero problems with it. We regularly troll down to 2 MPH although at times we need to be at 2.8 - 3.1 or you simply don't catch fish.

 

[ziemann]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

I understand both sides of the fuel statement. With that being said, all of the considerations that I have listed are things that I am taking into account. You have to pay to play- no question. However, where I go in Canada, fuel is very high in price compared to our US prices- so I do have to take it into account.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

If you're concerned about the resale value, bring it down to Fla when you get ready to sell. Those V4's are very rare on the used market. When one pops up it doesn't last long. They're great motors and everyone keeps them.

Oh -- a 2005 motor doesn't have a VRO system. It'll have the newer OMS pump which isn't variable, just pumps a realatively staedy 50:1 ratio. Excellent system.

 

[ziemann]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

Thanks Dhadley- I wasn't aware that they had changed oil pump systems. Is there any maintenance or things I need to watch with the new oil pump? I am familiar with the VRO and new what to watch with those....just wasn't aware of the OMS pump....

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

Just make sure your alarm horn works. It should "self test" each time you turn the key on. And make sure to keep water out of the oil tank. The pump doesn't know water from oil, it'll pump both pretty well.

 

[whofan]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

I`ve seen many Johnson 90s where I live. Everyone thinks they are great motors. They are thirsty thats the only complaint I`ve heard. The 90 Johnsons are strong running motors. I would not hesitate to buy one. I own a 2000 70 Johnson and its a very well built motor, even if its a dinosaur compared to the new motors today.
Back in the day OMC was the best in my opinion. The Johnson 90 was the surviving OMC design used by Bombardiar.

 

[evin268fs]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

just got a 1998 60 degree 115 this winter, still working on propping it right. Very strong so far, great, just a little thirsty but not more that any other carbed motor. If I get it proped right might get a little better economy. Ran better than I ever expected, coming from an old crossflow 115 night and day difference.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

If it's a question between old tech and new tech based on performance then any DFI would be better than any carbed engine. But when you factor in initial costs and real usage value....It becomes less clear. Since the most important thing to look for in an outboard is that it brings you back I would tend to look at the old tech as being the better value at this point. Carbed engines can simply not be beat for their serviceability. But, if performance(ability to idle in this case) is important, that has to be weighed against the reliability. The deciding factor for me would be where I used the engine. In protected waters where I could always depend on other boaters being somewhere near me, go new tech. If it's just me out on the blue I want that old fashioned 90 to bring me back.

 

[ziemann]

Re: Any Opinions? NEW '05 Johnson 90 2 stroke 60 degree looper

Thanks guys for all of the feedback. Since the ice went off of the lakes this past weekend, I finally got the opportunity to get my Nissan TLDI in the water today. After sitting 6 months, she fired right off and ran like a swiss watch....its as if I ran it yesterday. I am continuously astounded at how well that engine performs. I agree with you Elvin, there is something to be said about the technology that makes these outboards perform as well as they do. I ran her today for the last time.

I guess you could say that I have taken a step backwards in technology, but my boat will see frequent use in the back country in NW Ontario, and I like the thought that I can work on a carb'd 2 stroke if I have to and not be at the mercy of a dealer. I also cannot ignore the difference in price between the 2 technologies- the dramatic difference in price ($5600 for a rigged Johnson 90) definately gets my attention.

I put a deposit down today on the new Lund Mr. Pike with a Johnson 90 and put my boat on consignment at the dealership (they are not charging me a consignment fee).

Again thanks everyone for the positive feedback. I will report back my impressions of this rig in a couple of weeks when I get her in the water. I am really looking forward to doing a break in on a new 2 stroke. I love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning....