Water in the Oil

[Scott Butler]

I recently purchased a boat 2002( Regal) with two Volvo 43. GL motors in it. This weekend, the boat did not seem to have as much power as usual and then on Saturday, the warning sound came on on the port side engine. The oil pressure was lower and the temperature was higher than the starboard engine. I turned the engine off, hopped in the water to see if the intakes were clogged or there was any other visible damage. I then opened the engine hatch and there was a mixture of oil and water in the bottom of the boat. I limped back in. The next morning, I checked the oil on the engine and it was a quart low. As I went to add oil, I noticed that there was a frothy mixture of oil and water in the valve cover. I spoke with a friend and he suggested that it was either a blown head gasket or a damaged exhaust riser. He suggested changing the oil a couple of times to get out as much water as possible. I changed the oil twice and it looked like a chocolate milk shake both times. Note that the engine still runs smoothly when idling.

Questions:
Is there any way to diagnose the problem with the engine or do I need to take it to a dealer?

If it is a head gasket, is this something that I could replace (I have done this on an automobile engine before although it has been quite a few years)?

Thanks for any help and suggestions

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

Read this:
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_10.pdf
and this:
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_13.pdf

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

KaGee, neither of those bulletins address the specifics of his issue of loss of oil/oil in the bilge along with water in the oil.

Wouldn't it take a rather large crack in the block/head to allow water in AND oil out?

Exhaust manifolds won't cause a loss of oil. Can the intake manifold cause a loss of oil?

It sure sounds like a head gasket to me. But I am not as experienced as some of you so I submit to your better judgement.

Scott, were you able to identify where the oil was coming from?

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

RF, he asked if there was anyway to diagnos his problem. PDF 13 will at least give him a starting point.

 

[Scott Butler]

Re: Water in the Oil

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I did change the oil but did not remove the spark plugs to see if there was water there. Also, I did a quick visual inspection of the engine and could not find where the oil leak was coming from. I will reinspect today.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

I agree that pdf 13 is a valuable reference. I was just hoping that someone would comment on the loss of oil. Water intrusion usually causes the oil level to rise.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Water in the Oil

No one else has any ideas for this poor guy? Don, Rodbolt, et al?

 

[tommays]

Re: Water in the Oil

I would pull the plugs and run a compression check and would be pretty supprised if that does not point out the problem

It does not take much to put littel motors pushing a BIG boat over the edge because there already working so hard


Tommays

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Water in the Oil

Is this boat in salt or fresh water? Either way if there is water getting in the engine it need immediate attention if you plan on salvaging it.

The boat fix bullitin KaGee listed has some good info in it on how to determin where the water is comming from.

 

[Scott Butler]

Re: Water in the Oil & Oil in the Bildge

Re: Water in the Oil & Oil in the Bildge

I pulled the spark plugs, did a compression check on the cylinders, and did a visual inspection last night.

There was no obvious water in the cylinders

Here are the results of the compression test
162 160
173 160
158 173

The visual inspection produced some surprising results but no clue as to the issue(s). A friend that has worked on a few boat engines over the years came over and had a look at the motor. He was surprised to see the amount of oil in the bilge. He guessed that there are actually two problems with the motor - an oil leak and a water leak.

The inspection showed a couple of pools of oil on top of the intake manifold but no obvious place that it was coming from. The oil leak is somewhere on the side of the engine that has the oil fill but it is very strange that there was so much oil on top of the motor. We also found some residue on the bottom of the oil filter and the bottom of the exhaust manifold.

He suggested as next steps to run the engine on the muffs for a while to see if I could spot the oil leak. Note that the engine lost about a quart of oil with this problem.

He then suggested starting to break down the exhaust system and that the water problem was probably somewhere in that region.

Finally, he thought that the compression test did not make it look like a blown head gasket as the cause but neither one of us are professional mechanics.

Any pointers or new ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

Oil on top most likey came from the breather tubes that run from the valve covers to the spark arrester on the carb.

When you run on muffs, check and see if you have a lot of blow-by or oil exiting the tubes. Also look for any dripping condensation.

What does the inside of the oil filler cap look like?

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Water in the Oil

Water in the oil and not in the cylinders is a symptom of a bad intake manifold gasket. Pretty common problem with vortec engines anyway. May also have small leaks externally where the intake and the head mate together, look close.

 

[ron7000]

Re: Water in the Oil

for oil leaks, double check where the oil filter is. A bad filter gasket will cause a large loss of oil. Also verify the crankcase breathers and/or pcv valves are working and connected properly. If the crankcase can't vent, internal pressure will blow the front and/or rear main seals causing a huge loss of oil. A more common source of an oil leak is the rear of the intake manifold, as well as a good source of water in the oil. If you have good access to your engines, an intake gasket set is cheap and easy to do. You mentioned you just purchased a 2002 boat, so hopefully it wasn't neglected by the previous owner and it's nothing major like a cracked block or head.

depending on the access you have to the motors, sometimes cylinder head removal is easier than a car. The procedure is no different, if you are knowledgable you can certainly do it yourself.

 

[imported_Pioneer]

Re: Water in the Oil

cScott - Dan here...I'll add my $0.02 wrt our findings w/the port engine last night...

Nothing more to add re: the watery oil - next steps will depend on our findings wthe manifolds off...

Starting w/the oil leak (engine left/right is looking at the circ pump on front of engine)...
1. There was about 1 quart of oil in the bilge which = the amount the engine was low - could be more considering the engine oil also contained water (prior to changing)...
2. There was about 2 TBL of black oil on top of the intake manifold (right rear side) with no signs of oil near the intake gasket seams along the cylinder heads or the valve cover gaskets.
3. The top of the carb was "misted" w/oil and the spark arrestor had oil/water goop at the point where it meets the flange of the carb. The carb barrels looked perfectly dry. All the oil misting was on the outside.
4. The oil fill cap and vent hose were lined w/whitish oil water goop. I suspect that the water condensates more that the oil and causes the mix to build up more.
5. Given the amount of oil on top of the intake, I inspected the oil sender but it was bone dry as was the back of the engine (i.e. not rear intake seal or sender leak).
6. The front of the engine was also w/out oil.
7. The left side of the engine appeared clean of oil to the touch.
8. We found oil drips on the bottom of the oil filter and bottom of the oil pan where the dip stick tube goes in (filter is above the filler tub connection).
9. There were oil drips underneath the right exh manifold as well.

We had some limited visibility wrt exterior condition of the heads because of the exhaust manifolds, risers and elbows being present.

Wiping the engine down, placing a pad underneath (to observe drips) and running on muffs was deemed "safe" because water was not in cylinders and the exh manifolds were still conveniently in place...waiting to hear what happens w/venting (i.e. excessive back pressure)...

Intake manifold leak at junction w/heads does not explain quantity of oil _and water_ in the bilge. Front and rear leaks were not evident since front and rear of engine were dry.

Perhaps a head gasket blew on on the right side of the engine but we won't be able to tell until the exh manifold is off...

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Water in the Oil

is it raw water cooled?

 

[Scott Butler]

Re: Water in the Oil

Yes - it is raw water cooled.

 

[calwldlif]

Re: Water in the Oil

1 quart low would not explain oil pressure loss.
Oil could have blown out dipstick tube.
water is curious. (raw water not pressurized)
How much pressure of oil loss?
Great compression readings, well balanced.
If severe oil press loss could be galley plug.
Still doesn't explain water.
cracked head? But have good comp......
intake manu is looking...........water......

How much oil pressure loss?
Is pvc clogged?

I guess intake could suck water, water seeps into oil
oil gets thick clogs pvc, pvc won't breath, pressure
builds, oil blows out dipstick.

O well throw it away and buy anew one:devil:

 

[imported_Pioneer]

Re: Water in the Oil

it is quite a ponderous set of circumstances:|

 

[KaGee]

Re: Water in the Oil

Boy, Scott and Dan, you are right.

Your description sure sounds like what I described above... excessive blow-by and you are getting some water from somewhere... The frothy mix would be from excessive condensation build up on the breather hoses, caused by water in the system.

The $10 Million question is from where is the water coming why so much blow-by and why oil in the bilge.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Water in the Oil

If the block isn't cracked internally (which I doubt it is) the intake is leaking. Pull the intake and check the gaskets. Even if there was a problem with the heads the intake has to come off anyway and you'll be half way there.

If it was an exhaust manifold/riser problem there would be water in the cylinders, You said there was none.

Its also veeeeeeery rare to see a head gasket blow externally on a GM V engine, especially a raw water cooled engine, they do not build any significant water pressure. Even if it did there is no way for that water to get internal into the engine, there are no oil passages in the head gasket.

The oil and water is due to condensation and blowby from the inability to breath properly. This problem didn't just happen it's probably been leaking/seeping for a few uses then finaly manifest itself Saturday due to overheating and lack of oil pressure.