Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

[mtbdudex]

I have a 1996 FourWinns with 4.3L 190hp, Volvo Penta SX Cobra outdrive.
Took the family boating in Brighton Michigan today, 3.5 hours.

Upon getting home and post inspection noticed oil from my Volvo-Penta outdrive.

Help, what does this mean?
Some seal bad? I've not checked anything else (oil level of stern/etc)
Here are picts of when I first noticed it, notice the finger wipe mark on both sides.
LH side:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THmt-Who0RI/AAAAAAAAKwU/6fv-kftvpoo/s800/_MG_2899.jpg
RH side:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THmt-qyLViI/AAAAAAAAKwY/VGrsfPyMcDw/s800/_MG_2901.jpg

Heres the underside boot area showing some oil as well:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THmt-wz8xSI/AAAAAAAAKwc/OlRH0uLGkPc/s800/_MG_2904.jpg


These are 5 minutes later, the oil is still leaking out, my finger wipe mark is totally covered and little puddle on driveway now.

Rough idea? Gasket? Seal?
I did not notice any funky noise/grinding, nor did we hit anything in the water.

Next steps?
-check oil of outdrive?
-??

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

It is a seal for sure. Remove the plastic cover on the back of the upper part of the drive and look around the shift shaft.
I would also pull the drive and inspect the bellows for water and gear lube.
Also get that fishing line off of that trim ram or it will be next to start leaking.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Why don't you remove that back cover and look to see what is leaking. When was the last time the drive was removed to check the bellows for water, and check alignment?

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Thx for quick response, tomorrow I'll remove the cover and do further inspection.

Sorry I forgot to mention that I had a re-man engine installed last year June-2009 http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=329960.
Therefore should have been like new in the drivetrain dept I thought.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

engine, transom shield and drive are seperate assemblys.
installing a new engine does nothing for the transom shield or drive.
about the only two places that leak can occur is the shift shaft assy or the vent screw oring under the plastic cover.
sometimes 15 year old seals just fail.
its simply time to trim it down remove the cover and find the leak.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

I forgot to mention that I had a re-man engine installed last year June-2009
Therefore should have been like new in the drivetrain dept I thought.

Besides having nothing to do with the engine change, it was also over a year ago. Lots of things can change/fail in a year.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

engine, transom shield and drive are seperate assemblys.
installing a new engine does nothing for the transom shield or drive.
about the only two places that leak can occur is the shift shaft assy or the vent screw oring under the plastic cover.
sometimes 15 year old seals just fail.
its simply time to trim it down remove the cover and find the leak.

Understood and I do appreciate bandwidth of you guys here.

Looking here appears the shift shaft assy seal is bad?

Rear view wide.

Detail of shift shaft, that black o-ring seal looks easy enough to replace.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THpyQdU1wMI/AAAAAAAAKyo/j0djRuY_sYA/_MG_2917.jpg

Upon removal of fill cap there were some bubbles on it, this indicates H20 contamination?
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THpyQrKr0SI/AAAAAAAAKys/dsoa1cnPwgk/_MG_2919.jpg

Wipe, put in, remove, appears current lube fill is slightly above full mark
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THpyQyQ2PXI/AAAAAAAAKy0/cbKx9Jp9WgE/_MG_2922.jpg

fwiw I took this shot as well
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THpyRAIjF6I/AAAAAAAAKy4/tsYA8GO7A1M/_MG_2923.jpg

thx for your help, it's going to be nice thru Labor day here in SE Michigan so I'd like to get this fixed asap.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

That looks like your leak ok, but I find it hard to believe that seal is the cause of the problem. I would suggest you pull the outdrive and see if there is water in the bellows, my bet is there is. That is how the water gets in as the drive cools after a run, when it warms up the front seal holds and the oil gets pushed out of the drive through that shift shaft seal.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Thx Don, tomorrow after work looks like I'm pulling the outdrive for more investigation. Local marina is holding the shift shaft seal for me as well.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Don/others.....I have to ask knowing the "safe" answer and hoping there are other "monitor and use" options....

If I want 1-2 more days of "fun" with the boat before major tear down, (it will be 90's for next 3 days) then 70's, could I:

-drain outdrive oil and see how much H20 contamination
-if not "much", fill with new oil
-use boat

Out boat outings are typically 2-3 hours total in water, actual engine runtime is maybe 1 - 1.5 hour, if that.

Too much gamble for possible major damage?
Once I tear it down end of season for boating.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

No way i would use it unless you have really deep pockets!

Pulling the drive off is not a major thing.
Be sure to unhook the shift cable from the linkage,remove the 2 nuts on the trim rams,then the 6 nuts holding the drive and pull it off...
Takes all of 15 minutes...

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

No way i would use it unless you have really deep pockets!

Pulling the drive off is not a major thing.
Be sure to unhook the shift cable from the linkage,remove the 2 nuts on the trim rams,then the 6 nuts holding the drive and pull it off...
Takes all of 15 minutes...

Understood, thx for keeping me correct.

Is there any others seals/gaskets I need to replace when taking the outdrive off? If so I'll call the local marina to make sure they have those ready as well.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

You can order the complete drive seal kit for less than what the marina is probably going to charge.
I ordered one for a SX a few months ago....let me see if i can find the price.

Here is the Sierra kit,
http://www.iboats.com/Volvo-3850594-replacement-parts/dm/view_id.467797

The genuine Volvo kit is only about 5 bucks more.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Status:
Outdrive pulled, picts from removal below.
Draining oil, some milky oil but then 90% was oil colored.

Getting ready to pull outdrive

Outdrive pulled, what is this plastic hard crusted chunk?
At first I thought it was an old wasp nest that somehow they built there, but now I think not.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THxbEgunr4I/AAAAAAAAKz8/VRrLpn-ZPrU/_MG_3320.jpg

View after removing outdrive

H20 inlet port, I can see a new gasket is needed, when I asked the tech @ Marina he said no additional gasket needed when pulling this outdrive....
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THxbE3nl0eI/AAAAAAAAK0A/Go1W4KtpoWs/IMG_3324.jpg

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Part II inspection picts

Shaft bellows, I did not see H20 in here nor damage, I did not remove it though.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THxbFPaS2oI/AAAAAAAAK0E/gAsF7ORKFJk/_MG_3325.jpg

Exhaust bellows, this appeared ok to me.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THxbFSRtEVI/AAAAAAAAK0I/SnCH3z4lRRw/_MG_3326.jpg

U-joint still has grease on it. This along with gimbal bearing was replaced new last June-2009.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/THxbF2i4xfI/AAAAAAAAK0Q/mrJxI5ZZBek/_MG_3329.jpg

Shaft seals appear fine, but is it cheap insurance to replace these whenever you remove the shaft?

Screw removed from shift plate, looks like I need to remove 4 screws/cover to replace the shift seal.
Q: How do I remove the shift plate? It seems pressed hard on there, just pry both sides with screwdriver @ same time?
I'm also guessing a gasket is needed for the cover once removed as well.

Pict of u-joint shaft enter into outdrive, IF H20 got into the shaft bellows this is only way for water to enter the outdrive, correct? Hard for me to tell if that's the issue for my situation.

Don/Gary/others your help is being appreciated.
Local marina has complete service manual for $47, since I'll own this boat for many more years I pick that up tonight as well.
(I bought all the correct grease from marina for re-install)

 

[Lou C]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

There is definitely some liquid in your driveshaft bellows, it is water or gear oil? Your driveshaft and ujoints look good (not rusted). While you are in there check the gimble bearing too.
Water can get in an outdrive through prop seals, the seals for the drain and fill plugs, just about any seal that has water against it. The only way to tell is to do a vaccum and pressure test. I had water in mine a few years back and it was the water pump adaptor and the bearing carrier inside the drive. Not the input shaft bearing or prop shaft seals...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

no water pump adapters or shafts on an SX.
those are not seals they are the orings that drive the gimbal bearing and keep the shaft from rattling in the bearing.
yes replace them.
pay CAREFUL attention to the service manual ,read it BEFORE dissasembling the shift housing or your gonna regret it.
pay CAREFUL attention to the shift shoe orientation when dissasembling, will fit either way and trash the shift cone if installed wrong.
that 9/16 bolt you have removed from the shifter, its the shim and stop bolt for the shift shoe. those are NOT washers under it but shims.
dont lose them.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Sure looks like gear lube in the bellows to me.
Did you look at the kit i posted? You get all the needed seals and o-rings including the water passage o-ring.
If the bellows have not been changed in the last couple years now would be a great time to do them too.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Here is the OEM manuals for your engine and drive, assuming it's actually a 96 LK model. http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/VAYIZ7Y8/sharing.html?rnd=92
The 7797367 manual is the one you want for your outdrive. Section 3 covers the shift mechanism and it's repair.
That $47 manual your dealer has is probably a Seloc or Clymers and won't be very helpful.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: Help: oil from my Volvo-Penta SX Cobra outdrive 8/28/10

Here is the OEM manuals for your engine and drive, assuming it's actually a 96 LK model. http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/VAYIZ7Y8/sharing.html?rnd=92
The 7797367 manual is the one you want for your outdrive. Section 3 covers the shift mechanism and it's repair.
That $47 manual your dealer has is probably a Seloc or Clymers and won't be very helpful.

Yes, the dealer manual is a Seloc, I did not buy it.
Looks like I'll be ordering the manual you posted + complete kit like Gary posted, until I get those in this re-build is on hold.

There is definitely some liquid in your driveshaft bellows, it is water or gear oil? Your driveshaft and ujoints look good (not rusted). While you are in there check the gimble bearing too.
Water can get in an outdrive through prop seals, the seals for the drain and fill plugs, just about any seal that has water against it. The only way to tell is to do a vaccum and pressure test. I had water in mine a few years back and it was the water pump adaptor and the bearing carrier inside the drive. Not the input shaft bearing or prop shaft seals...

That was some oil based lube in the shift bellows as well.
I'll do more detailed teardown/inspection.

no water pump adapters or shafts on an SX.
those are not seals they are the orings that drive the gimbal bearing and keep the shaft from rattling in the bearing.
yes replace them.
pay CAREFUL attention to the service manual ,read it BEFORE dissasembling the shift housing or your gonna regret it.
pay CAREFUL attention to the shift shoe orientation when dissasembling, will fit either way and trash the shift cone if installed wrong.
that 9/16 bolt you have removed from the shifter, its the shim and stop bolt for the shift shoe. those are NOT washers under it but shims.
dont lose them.

Thx for real world advice.