I need a multimeter...

Bullie

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I am just learning to work on the ignitions systems on small 2 strokes and have run into issues with a couple of motors that I cannot figure out. I am told that I need a good multimeter with a DVA adapter or DVA capability. All I currently have is a Harbor Freight 'give away". Would this meter I found online do what I need to do?
http://www.maxrules.com/fixtools530.html
 

gm280

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Of course that meter will work for those rare occurrences where you'll actually need a DVA reading. But for the same money you could buy a nice Fluke DVM and it will be light years ahead of that meter in capability... Fluke meters are known to be some of the best out there. And lots of them have auto ranging, audio continuity sounds, and even diode verification scales! And some even have capacitance capability readings. That probably isn't worth it if you are not into electronics and circuits. But Fluke meters are very good indeed and you can easily make a DVA adapter for less then $5 dollars that will work on any meter... JMHO
 

Faztbullet

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That the perfect meter for working on boats( Its the same one Merc uses) and Fluke does not make one with a built in DVA. Youcan also use the HF meter with a DVA adapter and it will work fine as long as ranges setttings are high enough.
 

Bullie

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Thanks. HF stuff is junk a whole lot of the time. Free Junk is even a little more scary. I would rather buy a good piece of equipment that will last if I don't mess it up. Good news, I found the meter at a much better price from another source.
Thanks for the advice.
 

gm280

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Bullie, please don't take me wrong. I worked a long career designing and fixing electronic circuits. And knowing how to use any meter is a skill that will allow such a person to basically use any meter to the best of its ability. So that is why I suggested a Fluke DVM. IF you search the net, you will find a lot of really simple circuits that anybody can build for a DVA adapter. And that DVA can be used with most any meter to allow you to see those higher peak voltages. But usually there is not much need for doing that when trouble shooting any OB engine with most any type problem. So whatever meter you chose, learn all you can about how to use it to the best ability you can. It helps in so many applications beyond engine repairs...
 

MTboatguy

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My HF meter I bought over 10 years ago, was made by the same company that makes Fluke meters, I know that for a fact, cause the electronic board it is says fluke on it. Yes, some of the HF stuff is junk, but they also have quite a bit of stuff that is manufactured by the same companies that make the brand name stuff.
 

Bullie

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gm280, I don't think we were really miscommunicating. I know precisely dink about electricity and circuitry and it took you less than half a sentence to go places and talk about things I will likely never understand. Truthfully, I don't know how to use my Harbor Freight meter. Don't have a clue. Don't know what all the little symbols mean... don't know the difference in an ohm or volt.

I have to unlearn the great electricity lesson my father taught me nearly 40 years ago, "Don't mess with electricity...it can kill you..or plumbing, it will make you wish you were dead."

I am just looking for a good basic tool. I will have to grow into it even in its most basic use. I have enough sense to know you were giving good advice...I just had no idea what to do with it. Kinda the same situation I had as a teenager, I had a Fender Telecaster but I might as well as had a $69 Wal-Mart special for what I was able to do with it...
 

JoLin

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I have to unlearn the great electricity lesson my father taught me nearly 40 years ago, "Don't mess with electricity...it can kill you..or plumbing, it will make you wish you were dead."

Well, electricity can be learned, and after a couple jolts you get the hang of it. :)

He was dead on target about plumbing, though. Hate it, hate it. :grumpy:
 

UncleWillie

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I am just learning to work on the ignitions systems on small 2 strokes and have run into issues with a couple of motors that I cannot figure out. I am told that I need a good multimeter with a DVA adapter or DVA capability. All I currently have is a Harbor Freight 'give away". Would this meter I found on-line do what I need to do?

I know precisely dink about electricity and circuitry and it took you less than half a sentence to go places and talk about things I will likely never understand. Truthfully, I don't know how to use my Harbor Freight meter. Don't have a clue. Don't know what all the little symbols mean... don't know the difference in an ohm or volt.

If you do not know how to use the meter you have, even a $2000 is not going to work any better.
A DVA will not be of any help unless unless you understand what the readings mean.
Before you spend any money, spend the time learning about what you are doing.
Measure the voltages on engines, both marine and automotive, while running and stopped, of engine that are working Properly.
You can't tell what is wrong until you know what is correct.
Before you take a measurement, state out loud what you expect the reading to be.
Once you become confident in the correct readings, you will be able to identify incorrect readings.

Measure everything, Battery connections, Alternator connections, Switch and Fuse connections.
For example, measure both sides of a good fuse to each side of the battery and then across the fuse itself.
Now simulate a blown fuse by removing the fuse and makes all the same measurements again.
Do all the measurements make sense? You can only learn by doing.
It is very hard to mess up with a Voltmeter.
It is very easy to mess up with an Amp-meter. Save that lesson for later!
 

achris

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... don't know the difference in an ohm or volt.

I have to unlearn the great electricity lesson my father taught me nearly 40 years ago, "Don't mess with electricity...it can kill you..or plumbing, it will make you wish you were dead."

I am just looking for a good basic tool. I will have to grow into it even in its most basic use. I have enough sense to know you were giving good advice...I just had no idea what to do with it. Kinda the same situation I had as a teenager, I had a Fender Telecaster but I might as well as had a $69 Wal-Mart special for what I was able to do with it...

Love that expression... Made me laugh...

Anyway, here's your first lesson (and it's very easy. I teach mechanical guys about electrickery all the time)....

It's also interesting that you used a plumbing scenario, as the way I explain electricity and those symbols is also a plumbing analogy....

Here goes.
so, what are all these things, volts, amps, ohms, current, resistance?

Voltage (measured in 'volts', symbol 'V') is electrical pressure, like you pounds per square inch in hydraulics.
Current (measured in 'amps', symbol 'A') is electrical flow, like gallons per hour.
Resistance (measured in 'ohms', symbol 'Ω') is the restriction to flow.

Those are the basics.

Thinnking about that, you will also notice that wires, which carry the electricity, have 2 characteristics. Their size (measured in mm2, or gauge) and the insulation. Think of their size as a water pipes' diameter. The more flow you want, the large the pipe needs to be. Now think of the pressure. The higher the pressure, the thicker the wall needs to be, same as electricity, the higher the voltage, the thicker the insulation.

Something I also need to mention is the difference between AC and DC. DC, Direct Current is just like the water flowing from your garden hose, it's constantly flowing in the same direction. This is what you'll find in your car and boat, DC... AC, Alternating Current is what it's name says, alternating. Due to the way electricity is produced in the power station, the easiest way is to make it go positive and negative alternately, at about 60 times per second (50 time per second where I live)... Sometimes you will see AC as a '~' symbol, and DC is '⎓'

Ok, on to the symbols on your meter and what they mean.

By now you will have noticed the Ω symbol. The meter produces a current on the leads (don't worry, it's very small) and sees how difficult it is to push that current through what you are testing. The result is read on the dial as ohms. The higher the number, the more resistance. On your meter there are multiple ranges for most quantities. If you are unsure of what you are expecting to see, start will the highest range.

I have one of the meters you just bought. And they are incredibly easy to use. They don't use symbols, just the letters of the thing you're looking for. You have 4 holes for the leads. The black lead always goes in the '-COM' hole (bottom left). The red lead will go into the hole of the value you're trying to read, and based on the dial position. The holes are labelled appropriately. The only hole with a symbol is the bottom right. That is the hole you'd put the red lead if you are measuring anything but DVA (most 2 stroke ignitions measurements will require DVA) and high current DC (that's the top left hole and the dial pointing at '10A' position).

When using it to measure resistance (Ω) you need to do 2 things first. One is to put a battery in the back of the meter, so it can generate the voltage it requires. The second is to 'zero' the meter. We do that by touching the ends of the leads together. And turning the Ω ADJ knob (top left) until the needle reads on the '0' of the top scale. You'll also notice the needle swings over a mirror. You use the mirror to make sure you are looking directly over the needle and that removes any 'parallex' error.

One last thing. If you are not going to be using the ohms readings, don't bother putting a battery in. The meter only needs the battery for those readings, and we usually forget about the battery until it leaks and kills the meter....

Cheers and good luck. Any questions, ask away.... ;)

Chris..........
 
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achris

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Of course that meter will work for those rare occurrences where you'll actually need a DVA reading. But for the same money you could buy a nice Fluke DVM and it will be light years ahead of that meter in capability... Fluke meters are known to be some of the best out there. And lots of them have auto ranging, audio continuity sounds, and even diode verification scales! And some even have capacitance capability readings. That probably isn't worth it if you are not into electronics and circuits. But Fluke meters are very good indeed and you can easily make a DVA adapter for less then $5 dollars that will work on any meter... JMHO

I have one of those meters, and I paid a LOT more for it than that advertised price, and that was 20 years ago! On the 'rare occasion' I use it, it pays for itself 10 times over! Yes, you can make a DVA adapter for any other meter, but if you don't have the tools, or parts, or understanding, you can't... Just buy the meter already!

Chris...........
 

Bullie

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Awesome info achris....read you reply a couple times already. Thanks. I will figure it out with time like unclewillie says...but, I think I did the right thing by getting a tool that will do what I need it to do.
 

gm280

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achris, great write up, but still confusing to somebody that has never ever used any meter or has an understanding of electricity. But that isn't your fault, but the complexity of the subject. Hard to transfer years of experience and knowledge in a single comment. But it was a good offering... No better way to learn then hands on. But with DC 12 volt circuits to keep from being shocked... Reading about electricity and using a meter will go a long way to understanding. JMHO!
 

hondam

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I have been working on outboard for over 16 years and specialize in electrical, ignition, and fuel injection at the dealership i work at. There are 2 tools i swear by, my Fluke 88V DVM and my stevens instruments CD-77 DVA meter.

The Fluke is probably not something the weekender is going to buy because its very expensive. Fluke meters in general are the industry standard in meters as even though you may not buy a 88V, i would suggest looking at one of their more entry level models. Buy it right the first time and you probably wont need to buy another one.

As far as the Harbour Freight meters, when we were building our new building at work, i wanted to check to see if the 220 welding plug was hot, so i used my brand new HF meter just to check. It read 310V, i was confused wondering how my electrician managed to do that. Then i checked it with my Fluke and it was right were it was supposed to be. The HF meters are junk and i wouldnt even give them away. A meter isnt worth anything if you cant rely on the measurements its making.

As far as DVA, by far the best meathod for measuring that is the Stevens Instruments CD-77 meter. ITs an analog meter and has been around for many years. I have used the differents DVA adapters and have a CDI one available as a backup You can sometimes find great deals on used CD-77 meters on eBay.
 

MTboatguy

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I have been working on outboard for over 16 years and specialize in electrical, ignition, and fuel injection at the dealership i work at. There are 2 tools i swear by, my Fluke 88V DVM and my stevens instruments CD-77 DVA meter.

The Fluke is probably not something the weekender is going to buy because its very expensive. Fluke meters in general are the industry standard in meters as even though you may not buy a 88V, i would suggest looking at one of their more entry level models. Buy it right the first time and you probably wont need to buy another one.

As far as the Harbour Freight meters, when we were building our new building at work, i wanted to check to see if the 220 welding plug was hot, so i used my brand new HF meter just to check. It read 310V, i was confused wondering how my electrician managed to do that. Then i checked it with my Fluke and it was right were it was supposed to be. The HF meters are junk and i wouldnt even give them away. A meter isnt worth anything if you cant rely on the measurements its making.

As far as DVA, by far the best meathod for measuring that is the Stevens Instruments CD-77 meter. ITs an analog meter and has been around for many years. I have used the differents DVA adapters and have a CDI one available as a backup You can sometimes find great deals on used CD-77 meters on eBay.

Firgures
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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I have been working on outboard for over 16 years and specialize in electrical, ignition, and fuel injection at the dealership i work at. There are 2 tools i swear by, my Fluke 88V DVM and my stevens instruments CD-77 DVA meter.

The Fluke is probably not something the weekender is going to buy because its very expensive. Fluke meters in general are the industry standard in meters as even though you may not buy a 88V, i would suggest looking at one of their more entry level models. Buy it right the first time and you probably wont need to buy another one.

As far as the Harbour Freight meters, when we were building our new building at work, i wanted to check to see if the 220 welding plug was hot, so i used my brand new HF meter just to check. It read 310V, i was confused wondering how my electrician managed to do that. Then i checked it with my Fluke and it was right were it was supposed to be. The HF meters are junk and i wouldnt even give them away. A meter isnt worth anything if you cant rely on the measurements its making.

As far as DVA, by far the best meathod for measuring that is the Stevens Instruments CD-77 meter. It's an analog meter and has been around for many years. I have used the differents DVA adapters and have a CDI one available as a backup You can sometimes find great deals on used CD-77 meters on eBay.


I've been a computer hardware engineer (since 1980), marine mechanic (since 1994) and now work as an underwater robot specialist (see "ROV" on google) since 1991. I also agree with your comments on the Fluke. My meter of choice is the 77 series. I have at home a 73-III. I also have a USB based oscilloscope and own my own Megger and a multitude of other meters. I have a cheapy that lives in the car, and I have an ES PM-1 DVA (also an analogue meter), which I bought as a Mercury recommended and supplied instrument. That is the one that HF are selling out. It is a damn fine meter, and I have been using mine for the last 20 years with no problems at all...

Chris......
 
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MTboatguy

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It is very difficult to claim HF meters are bad, if you have only tried one model, my HF meter that I bought for automotive work, with RPM's as well as Dwell and such, is a Fluke meter, the mother board in it states Manufactured for Fluke right on the board. You can get a bad meter, no matter which brand you buy, it happens all of the time. I really get tired of people saying something is bad, when they have only experienced them once, Hell I still drive Fords and I have got a couple of bad ones over the years, I still keep buying them!

You guys do realize, there are really not that many companies that actually manufacture these things in the world, Right?

:eek:
 
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gm280

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It is very difficult to claim HF meters are bad, if you have only tried one model, my HF meter that I bought for automotive work, with RPM's as well as Dwell and such, is a Fluke meter, the mother board in it states Manufactured for Fluke right on the board. You can get a bad meter, no matter which brand you buy, it happens all of the time. I really get tired of people saying something is bad, when they have only experienced them once, Hell I still drive Fords and I have got a couple of bad ones over the years, I still keep buying them!

You guys do realize, there are really not that many companies that actually manufacture these things in the world, Right?

:eek:

As a general service type meter is really all you need or looking for, then basically any meter is better then no meter. I can take a elcheapo meter and gain a lot of info using it. But when I want very precise measurement like amplifier gain or precise current reading or even frequency measurements, I have to go to my Fluke meters. And yes I have more meters then fingers. Some analog meters like Simpson 260's (another quality standard) heck, I even have an old Bruin PSM6 analog meter. I have at least three Flukes of different models. But I also have a Cen Tec meter that I rarely use anymore. So I have every type meter price/quality range out there. But once you use a meter for a career and have to rely on the readings for solving problems, the Flukes wins hands down... I realize that HF meters made be using Fluke circuit boards, but they are certainly not to the specifications of real Fluke meters. They either didn't pass quality testing or were purchased as bare board over runs and then stuffed with their own components...not Fluke quality components. Common sense will tell you that HF isn't selling or handing out for free Fluke quality type meters that normally would cost you a couple hundred dollars. With that all said, I have to agree with each commenter and about what each says and if you want to purchase a meter for a particular reason, buy what you think you need. The more you understand and use a meter the more you will see what meters have to offer. But until you can see the use and need for the better offerings available, don't buy more then you know how to use... A quality meter in the hands of somebody that surely knows how to use it to its max ability, can solve so many issues pretty quickly... JMHO!
 
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