Water in bellows

[JASinIL2006]

Hi all, I pulled my outdrive the other day for winter storage and servicing, and when I removed it, I found water in the bellows (see first picture below).I did a cursory check of the bellows (it was pretty dark out) and I couldn't see or feel any holes or tears. As I was checking things out, I noticed that the gasket that seals the outdrive to the bellhousing looked pretty messed up (see second picture below).

I'm wondering what the chance is that the water came in via some path other than a hole in the bellows, and what I can do to figure out what exactly needs to be fixed. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Jim

 

[DeepBlue2010]

I would dry the inside of the bellow and insert a flash light into it and extend it fully. Check all around and see if I can find any traces of light outside. The gasket could allow water inside if it was compromised. How old are the bellows?

 

[JoLin]

I had an issue last spring that my mechanic pointed out to me. Water in the bellows destroyed the gimbal bearing, but the bellow was intact and in good shape. He pointed out a large clamp on the bellows that was slightly 'canted', i.e., not mounted squarely on the rubber. It allowed water to seep in.

My .02

 

[JASinIL2006]

I would dry the inside of the bellow and insert a flash light into it and extend it fully. Check all around and see if I can find any traces of light outside. The gasket could allow water inside if it was compromised. How old are the bellows?

That sounds like a good idea to check them. I'm not entirely sure how old the bellows are. We've had the boat for about three years, and it was repowered a year or two before we got it. They are maybe 5 years old or so, I would guess. The rubber is still pretty soft and pliable.I know it wouldn't take much of a hole or crack to let water in, though.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I had an issue last spring that my mechanic pointed out to me. Water in the bellows destroyed the gimbal bearing, but the bellow was intact and in good shape. He pointed out a large clamp on the bellows that was slightly 'canted', i.e., not mounted squarely on the rubber. It allowed water to seep in.

My .02

Did that happen soon after the bellows had been installed, or did it develop some time later? I've been pulling my drive every winter since got the boat, and this is the first time I've ever found water.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I had the same kind of problem. If you have water, it is usually cheaper, and get it right the first time, to replace the ujoint bellows and the shift cable bellows. Be really careful how the gasket lines up and that it doesn't 'pooch' out when you tighten the bolts, when you reinstall. Check and or even just replace the bushings and seals for the shift shaft with new style one. And glue with bellows cement the big square oring that goes into the bell housing.

Also, have on hand a few of the gasket sets, you can get them for $10-$12 and with one in hand you can pop the leg off after the first use in spring and make SURE you got it sealed up. Takes a half hour to do, can be done anywhere and removes the guesswork.


If you got water, you also may have trashed a gimbal bearing and ujoints. Check them carefully. (edit - from the pictures it doesn't look like it ran very long with water in it. the water and grease are not mixed. So you probably are golden on the ujoints and gimbal)

Unless you know for sure that you found your leak, replacing things piecemeal means you'll probably be back.

Rick

 

[tpenfield]

The bellows need a good seal at its end points as well as its own integrity . . . so water could seep in at the 'clamp' end if not properly sealed and clamped. It can also seep in at the bell housing end if the outdrive mating ring does not make a good seal with the bellows.

Were the bolts holding the outdrive onto the bell housing loose at all when you removed the outdrive? Anything unusual about the mating surfaces ?

 

[DeepBlue2010]

If they are 5 years old, I would replace them anyway. Last thing I want to happen is for them to show their age while I am in water.

 

[JASinIL2006]

The bellows need a good seal at its end points as well as its own integrity . . . so water could seep in at the 'clamp' end if not properly sealed and clamped. It can also seep in at the bell housing end if the outdrive mating ring does not make a good seal with the bellows.

Were the bolts holding the outdrive onto the bell housing loose at all when you removed the outdrive? Anything unusual about the mating surfaces ?

Nothing unusual... everything was tight. I tightened them with a torque wrench last Spring when I put the drive on.

It is starting to sound like I should read up on how to change my bellows...

I'll try to clean everything up and take some pictures this weekend. Maybe someone will see something that looks amiss.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I had the same kind of problem. If you have water, it is usually cheaper, and get it right the first time, to replace the ujoint bellows and the shift cable bellows. Be really careful how the gasket lines up and that it doesn't 'pooch' out when you tighten the bolts, when you reinstall. Check and or even just replace the bushings and seals for the shift shaft with new style one. And glue with bellows cement the big square oring that goes into the bell housing.

Also, have on hand a few of the gasket sets, you can get them for $10-$12 and with one in hand you can pop the leg off after the first use in spring and make SURE you got it sealed up. Takes a half hour to do, can be done anywhere and removes the guesswork.


If you got water, you also may have trashed a gimbal bearing and ujoints. Check them carefully. (edit - from the pictures it doesn't look like it ran very long with water in it. the water and grease are not mixed. So you probably are golden on the ujoints and gimbal)

Unless you know for sure that you found your leak, replacing things piecemeal means you'll probably be back.

Rick

I always use new gaskets when I pull the drive, and I've only used OEM gaskets at that.

I'm really hoping the gimbal bearing and u-joints are OK. I reached in and ran my fingers around the gimbal bearing. It moved smoothly and easily, and the grease on my fingers afterward looked OK (not milky or watery). The u-joints were the same. Maybe I got lucky there...

What about the shift cable? Should I be worried about it? I imagine if it turns out I have to replace the bellows it would make sense to replace the shift cable while I have everything apart?

I completely agree with your thoughts re: piecemeal repairs. I want to make sure I do this right. If the bellows are bad, I'll fix it. I was just hoping to get a few more years out of them. Seems like those of us who boat in freshwater can get a few more years out of a set...

 

[tpenfield]

Nothing unusual... everything was tight. I tightened them with a torque wrench last Spring when I put the drive on.

It is starting to sound like I should read up on how to change my bellows...

I'll try to clean everything up and take some pictures this weekend. Maybe someone will see something that looks amiss.

I was somewhat fearful of doing the bellows until I had to replace them on my Bravo's last year. Having all the right tools and supplies is important. Overall, not as difficult as I had anticipated.

 

[Grub54891]

One thing to replace is the nut's that hold the drive on. I've seen quite a few that,, even torque to specifications, will squirt out the gasket as in you're pic. When the nut's wear out from use, they need to be replaced They lose their ability to torque properly, leading to overtightening.

 

[JoLin]

Did that happen soon after the bellows had been installed, or did it develop some time later? I've been pulling my drive every winter since got the boat, and this is the first time I've ever found water.

To answer your question, I only bought the the year before. Maintenance records that came with it didn't indicate they'd been replaced within the previous 10 years.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I always use new gaskets when I pull the drive, and I've only used OEM gaskets at that.

I'm really hoping the gimbal bearing and u-joints are OK. I reached in and ran my fingers around the gimbal bearing. It moved smoothly and easily, and the grease on my fingers afterward looked OK (not milky or watery). The u-joints were the same. Maybe I got lucky there...

What about the shift cable? Should I be worried about it? I imagine if it turns out I have to replace the bellows it would make sense to replace the shift cable while I have everything apart?

I completely agree with your thoughts re: piecemeal repairs. I want to make sure I do this right. If the bellows are bad, I'll fix it. I was just hoping to get a few more years out of them. Seems like those of us who boat in freshwater can get a few more years out of a set...

Perfect. New gaskets always. I don't always use OEM. Some of the aftermarket ones are good and when I was having troubles I would pull the drive every day in the campground and put it back together. Believe it or not I had a crack in the upper that was letting water into the shift linkage cavity, and from there into shift cable and wherever else. No way to fix it on vacation except I'd pull the drive daily, clean out the water, pull the lower cable out of the housing and use electrical cleaner to blow the housing out and dry it - the cable would start sticking if I left it wet long enough. Got through vacation and replaced it with an SEI outdrive.

Never be afraid to look. And as stated, new nylock nuts are cheap. If I was going in to redo my unknown history outdrive I would do all the bellows at once. Your water was not mixed with grease which is what always happens if you run long with water in the u-joint bellows. So grease your u-joints, they will have water in them. Run that gimbal since it is smooth. - Most likely you get a new gimbal with a bellows kit, so you can decide whether to replace or not. Replace the shift cable bellows. I'd do the shift shaft as well. Low cost and big benefit in longevity with the new style enlarged seal type - resists exhaust heat a lot better.

Test your lower shift cable before deciding whether to replace it. Disconnect it at the top and with the outdrive off slide the end in and out. Should be butter smooth. And if someone holds the bottom end pressed in hard, should not be much play at the top. If the housing wears, it gets bigger and you end up with play in and out on the cable.

You will feel a lot more confident having known exactly how good your bellows and seals are.

Rick

 

[JASinIL2006]

Thanks for all the good advice and counsel. The weather has turned pretty cold here, so I suspect it will be a while before I have a chance to follow up on all the suggestions. I will report back with what I find and what actions I take.

Thanks!

 

[JASinIL2006]

I'm reviving this thread with an update and some questions.

I decided to hold off on replacing the bellows. I inspected them thoroughly, and I could not find any spot where it looked like water could get in. The clamped ends looked good and I saw no tears/puncture. The rubber was still soft and pliable.

Just last weekend, I reinstalled the drive (it sat in the basement over winter, where I changed the impeller, replaced the gear lube, and pressure-tested the drive). Drive was installed with new OEM gaskets/O-rings, and new nylock nuts per Grub's suggestion.

I had the boat in water this weekend, for about 3 hours. It ran flawlessly, and I saw no water in the bilge. About 48 hours after I returned home, I pulled the drive, and found about a teaspoon of water in the u-joint bellows; the water wasn't mixed with the oil/grease, but was just sitting in the bottom of the bellows. (see pic)

I also drained a bit of the gear lube from the lube drain hole on the outdrive, and compared it to some new, unused lube. The stuff I drained looks a bit lighter, but I'm not sure if it's from water or maybe if a little air was in there since I had just replaced the lube.

I have a couple of questions.

I'm thinking it looks like I need to change the bellows, yes? While I'm in there, I'll check the shift cable and replace it if it's not smooth. Does anyone think that my water could be from anything BUT a bellows leak?

I am supposed to take my daughter and a couple of her friends to our cabin, where the boat would be in the water and docked for about a week. We're leaving the last weekend in May, which doesn't give me much time to replace the bellows before then (especially since I've never done this before). What are the risks in changing the bellows AFTER our trip?

Finally, does the gear lube in the two pictures look like something to be concerned about?

Thanks for your help!

 

[JASinIL2006]

No Title

Oops, forgot to post the pictures. Here they are:

 

[Grub54891]

Well, it's a decision you have to make for yourself. You could damage the u-joints and gimbal from water intrusion, or not. As long as you have them greased now it might be ok? Just how soft and pliable are they? To soft is not good. I had one that did not leak, but the bellow was really soft, scary soft, it should not be that soft....I replaced it. The best way to check the lube is put it in a jar, see if any water settles in the bottom, a ziplock works, kinda hard to determine in the pic. And no the water should not be in the bellow at all. Maby your clamps look good but did the adhesive give out, or some corrosion caused the leak at the clamp area.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Well, it's a decision you have to make for yourself. You could damage the u-joints and gimbal from water intrusion, or not. As long as you have them greased now it might be ok? Just how soft and pliable are they? To soft is not good. I had one that did not leak, but the bellow was really soft, scary soft, it should not be that soft....I replaced it. I'm not seeing any pic of your lube now.

I forgot to post the pics with my questions. I just put up the pics now, probably while you were responding.

 

[Grub54891]

yup saw them now. edited my above post.