Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

[Woodnaut]

"Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios" typically refers to the 25 watt variety of VHF-FM Marine Radio that many people have on their boats. My question is: Is it legal to have (and use) one of these radios on anything other than a boat? (For example, at a marina, a bay or beach house, or some other location on shore that is adjacent to a body of water.) It seems I recall that it was not permitted. If not, then what classification of radio (and/or license) is required to communicate from shore with boaters on the water?

I searched the forum for this but was not successful. - Woodnaut

 

[slasmith1]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

you can search the fcc regulations here http://search2.fcc.gov/search/index.htm?job=search&site=&q=vhf+shore+station

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

NONCOMMERCIAL:

Channels 09, 68, 69, 71, and 78 can be used for intership and ship to shore communications.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

You can not use the Marine VHF Transmiter from shore without a special permit.
Permits are allow for the Coast Guard. Marina Harbor Mastors but usually only use 1 watt for direction to the gas dock or to get a over night dock.

The base station for a Commerical Party boat is allowed with a permit.

Of course ship to shore marine operator are allowed on their channels.

Tow services can get a permit

From your Boat on the Trailer, or your Tow Vehicle, or your Camp site, or Home is not allowed.

You can listen but not Transmit.
Personally I think this is a great rule because if it was allowed there would so much traffic from Wifes or Fishing Buddys or a boater getting the ball game score or planing dinner that the guy SINKING 20 miles off shore would never get thru to save his Boat and Crew.

In cities like LA or San Francisco on a nice summer day with calm seas there probably more than 1000 boat out trying to use the channels now. Getting thru all the other boat calling on channel 16 now is hit or miss. On the bad days with big seas and strong winds chances are better offshore but still have many boat inside San Francisco Bay on the radio that will still prevent you from reaching the Coast Guard with a MayDay Call.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

Generally any radio transmitter in the United States requires an FCC station license and anyone operating the radio requires an operator's license, but there are certain exemptions. VHF radios in the Marine Service on ships not required to carry a radio, or so-called voluntary-equipped vessels, do not need a station license or an operator's license. A ship station license only authorizes shipboard use, not shore use. For use on shore a shore station license is required. You most likely cannot get a shore station license.

Quoting from the FCC website:

"Only those entities that provide some sort of service to vessels or control a bridge or waterway may become a private coast station licensee. Some common uses of private coast stations include: marinas, radio repair shops, bridges, locks, and yacht clubs."

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=coast_stations

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

I find this all entertaining and informative. Where I live I left my handheld VHF on "scan" in the car for a week. I was TOTALLY amazed at the radio silence! I heard a few random calls regarding a sailboat on Champlain that had run aground (probably the Coastie station - Champlain is 60 miles away) and a local trucking or landscape company (don't know who) who broke radio silence occasionally. Apparently they are not aware of the legality???

But even on 'scan' VHF is fairly quiet even on Champlain or Memphramagog.

Anyway, in answer to an implied question that came up a few times, I think handhelds can recieve quite a bit of transmissions that you would be unable to adequately respond to with their power and antenna height, but I think a handheld vhf is an excellent scanner on the water.

My 2 cents

 

[jhebert]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

I heard a few random calls...and a local trucking or landscape company...

It is unlikely that a local trucking company is using the MARINE RADIO service for their communication. The VHF Marine Band is monitored closely by the Coast Guard, and any clearly unauthorized and continued use of the VHF Marine Band would likely attract their attention. It is more likely that your radio may have received an out-of-band signal due to intermodulation. If the land mobile station were close by, their signal may have overloaded your radio.

Most coastal area Coast Guard radio watch standing locations now are equipped with the new RESCUE21 radio system. The RESCUE21 radio system gives an immediate indication of the bearing of any received signal. Stations on land would be quite noticeable to the Coast Guard radio watch.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

....It is more likely that your radio may have received an out-of-band signal due to intermodulation. If the land mobile station were close by, their signal may have overloaded your radio....

Possible- where I am I can see the top of Mount Mansfield where a lot of repeaters are located. But they were talking about dirt deliveries to roads in Stowe Vt that I am familiar with... just hadn't crossed my mind that it could be a private band "walking" over the marine channel. Channel 68 I think it was.

However, we are also quite a ways from the lake where the Coasties are located. It would surprise me if they would pick up a local transmit from here in the mountainous terrain of Lamoille County if someone were to transmit.

/edit:/ actually still have the handheld in my car, and this thread made me curious. So I set it on 'scan' when doing house checks in Stowe yesterday. Snowplowing and driveway sanding conversations can be heard now. I am quite convinced that they have Marine radios in their trucks. I do not think they are private bands walking into the marine frequencies.

 

[um0RION]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

It is unlikely that a local trucking company is using the MARINE RADIO service for their communication. The VHF Marine Band is monitored closely by the Coast Guard, and any clearly unauthorized and continued use of the VHF Marine Band would likely attract their attention. It is more likely that your radio may have received an out-of-band signal due to intermodulation. If the land mobile station were close by, their signal may have overloaded your radio.

Most coastal area Coast Guard radio watch standing locations now are equipped with the new RESCUE21 radio system. The RESCUE21 radio system gives an immediate indication of the bearing of any received signal. Stations on land would be quite noticeable to the Coast Guard radio watch.

Its not only likely, its highly likely trucking companies are using Marine radios for communication. I work for a company that does VHF, UHF, low band, CB, and Marine radio installs, and while I have installed many of each variety, I have NEVER installed a marine radio in a boat. Typically loggers use them for the distance they offer. However, we DO tell them that when they get one of those radios, they ARE NOT allowed to transmit on them. We dont have the capability of removing the mic from the case, so the radios are still fully functional. Im sure that some of those people use them for communication. Where we are however, they are in the deep woods, and its unlikely that they will be moving cargo close enough that the coast guard would pick up their signals. However when they go down along the coast, it does happen every now and then that a trucker will use it, and it will be heard.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

Its not only likely, its highly likely trucking companies are using Marine radios for communication. I work for a company that does VHF, UHF, low band, CB, and Marine radio installs, and while I have installed many of each variety, I have NEVER installed a marine radio in a boat. Typically loggers use them for the distance they offer. However, we DO tell them that when they get one of those radios, they ARE NOT allowed to transmit on them. We dont have the capability of removing the mic from the case, so the radios are still fully functional. Im sure that some of those people use them for communication. Where we are however, they are in the deep woods, and its unlikely that they will be moving cargo close enough that the coast guard would pick up their signals. However when they go down along the coast, it does happen every now and then that a trucker will use it, and it will be heard.

10-4 Good Buddy

 

[Seaclutter]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

In "theory" the Coast Guard does monitor VHF and the Rescue 21 system is up and running in most coastal areas. However, if I were a gambling man I'd bet you can't get the coast guard to respond with a voice call on ch 16 75% of the time. Rescue 21 is primarily "listening" for DSC distress calls, not voice. The FCC "technically" monitors for illegal transmissions but it's been 20 years since I've heard of anyone getting an official notice from them due to transmissions on marine VHF. Bottom line is though, private/non-marine related business or personal use on marine frequencies is illegal.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

we have a CC base here, they arrested a couple of teenagers, for MAYDAY calls. they did the 3 days in a row. they triangulated the transmitter.

 

[Islandbrah]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

Technically speaking the general consensus is correct. But if you think the CG is really going to come get you for chatting from your beach house to your boat on a non emergency channel then you are going to be disappointed. They have better things to do. Its always better to ask for forgiveness than permission...

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

Interesting thread.

Funny thing is that I had a guy I know call me yesterday asking about 5 watt Marine handhelds and whether they would perform better than his Midland gps/frs radios for hunting in the deep woods as he is dissapointed with his FRS performance. I think they would probably work well, but still won't "talk" over or around a mountain besides plain being illegal. But then again, he won't be calling out any maydays so they probably won't come and find him.

5W Marine handhelds seem to do better on the water than FRS but what do I know? I have never bought a good FRS radio, just cheapies.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

For readers who think you can screw around with your VHF Marine Band radio with impunity, a little story of Frederico C. Flores:

Frederico C. Flores, a 22-year-old man who lives in Toledo, amused himself for 25-hours by making false distress calls on a hand-held VHF Marine Band radio, causing local U.S. Coast Guard stations to initiate a search for what they believed was a vessel in distress.

Around 9 PM on March 11, 2009, Flores contacted USCG Station Detroit via radio and claimed that he was in a vessel on the Maumee River near the Toledo High Level Bridge, that there were four people aboard, that the vessel was sinking, and that two of the people aboard were already in the water. In response the USCG sent an air rescue unit from Detroit and boat crews from Toledo and Marblehead (Ohio) to search. Flores continued to transmit false distress signals until 10 PM on March 12, 2009. Flores later admitted he knew what he was doing was wrong and said he was just "playing a game."
The USCG Investigative Service, in cooperation with the Federal Communications Commission, determined the source and location of the transmissions as an apartment building at 5533 Lewis Avenue in Toledo, which led to the arrest of Flores.

On April 2, 2009, the United States Attorney filed a criminal indictment against Flores, charging him with communicating false distress messages to the United States Coast Guard.

On June 29, 2009, Flores pleaded guilty to making false distress calls.

On November 23, 2009, in the United States District Court for the Northern district of Ohio, Flores was sentenced by Judge James Carr to three years of supervised release and ordered to pay $112,735 in restitution to the United States Coast Guard.

 

[Mark_VTfisherman]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

For readers who think you can screw around with your VHF Marine Band radio with impunity.....a 22-year-old man.....amused himself.....by making false distress calls on a hand-held VHF Marin... radio

No one is suggesting, promoting, or seeking to make false distress calls here. Just citizens trying to use the tools at hand to do a service better than alternatives.

The original poster and the guy I mentioned were both inquiring as to the legality of using Marine VHF in a non-typical fashion. Probably neither of them are likely to make a false 911 call either.

Just sayin'

 

[Boatist]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

At inland location where there is very little Marine VHF use you may get away with it but it still not legal.

I can tell you in San Francisco area the Coast Gaurd will look for you if your talking on channel 16 or 22. I heard it on the radio many times. They will first put out the standard brocast "Channel 16 is for calling and disrtess only Move your traffic to a working channel".
Last summer they arested people in two boats and tow them in.
The guys were on channel 16 talking in a non english language.
Coast Guard put out two different radio call to them to move to a working channel and use English. Coast Guard got no reply and they continued to use channel 16.

About a half hour later on Channel 21 Coast Guard put out a call to 2 vessels they had out on a training mission. They ask them to attemp to locate the people transmiting on Channel 16 as part of their training. It took them about 1 hour but they located both vessels. They boarded each boat and did a saftey inspection. No one on either boat could really speak english and both vessels had major saftey vilation so they were towed by the Coast Guard and sited. Since the saftey problems were great enough to tell them to leave the water and make repair but they could not communicate with them Coast Guard towed then to their station.
After that did not here anymore on the radio.

 

[seaboo]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

It amazes me here (NC Mountains) how many hunters use marine radios for bear hunting. Granted there is no lake nearby but still most hunters use them. They use any and all chanels (granted normally on low power but still)...

 

[jhebert]

Re: Fixed Mount VHF Marine Radios On Shore

I presented my narrative about the incident involving misuse of a VHF Marine Band radio to make the point that the FCC and USCG monitor use of the VHF Marine Band. I prefaced the narrative with an introductory remark that made a similar point. This was offered to counter presentations which seemed to imply there was little or no supervision or monitoring of the VHF Marine Band by the FCC.

Use of the radio spectrum is on a shared basis, and without regulation and licensing by the FCC, it is unlikely there would be an orderly and effective use by the general public. If loggers in Vermont need radio communication, they should obtain a land mobile radio license.

The company that I work for is a licensee of hundreds of transmitters. The entire basis of our business depends on use of these transmitters without interference from unauthorized users. We share our frequencies with other users on a very carefully controlled and well engineered plan of shared band usage.

The notion that any transmitter can be used by any person for advancement of their business enterprise without licensing and authorization of the FCC is not in the public interest. Anyone aware of unlawful use of a transmitter should report it to the FCC. Others who facilitate unlawful use of transmitters and unallocated spectrum resources by providing equipment and installations to the unlicensed users should consider themselves as part of the problem of unlawful use.