Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

Well off to a rough start, the transom shield doesn't fit; there must be a large difference between the duo prop and single prop shield. Looks like I have a lot of parts for sale.:-( I don't think re-working the transom is an option with the budget.

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

The problem isn't between the sp and dp, its that your 280 uses the old aq270 size hole, and your boat used the hole size for either the aq280T or 290 to dp-c size...It appears they made a change in the late 70's or early 80's too. Finding a 290 or above outdrive most likely will bust the budget, but changing the thick section of the transom wood certainly would not, your looking at $200 +- in materials, and a few weekends work....but you have most everything else you need. Personally, I would just change the center, thick section of the transom...I did a similar lap repair on mine...you may find it needed it anyway..you may have run into some glassing anyway, with the motor mounts.

Theres a paper template floating around in the net and the cutout size is not much different than what you have..you need a slightly small er octagonal hole.

All is not lost if you don't want it to be....and we can walk you thru it.

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

I'm in for a couple/few hundred; I feel I have a great start with what I have. I just hadn't had the shield and the boat in the same place till today. What would the procedure be for making that work? I have NEVER done anything with fiberglass before; bondo yes. I realize not the same animal but I do have some skill. In my head I couldn't see how to make the keyhole the right size and with making it strong enough that it wouldn't crack or fall apart? I called a local shop and sent the guy a picture after I explained the issue; he didn't call back so I figured if a shop didn't want to make some easy money today I was in over my head.
This question would be forward thinking but how am I to see if everything will line up motor to drive wise? Since I will most likey be buying some sort of wood for this; I will need the firewall bulkhead as well. Or whatever the piece is the engine cover rests on and before the rear start of the swim platform.

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

An maybe a needs list of things I will also need to purchase that I may not have in order to do this? Which thread of yours did you do this on, so I can check it out.

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

Apparently, when VP made this change, they designed the new hole to allow an upgrade from the 270+- with just some additional cutting, in your case, youre going from later tech to earlier, because of budget...but its not much of a change, so theres minimal cosmetic fairing on the outer skin, mostly structural in the engine bay. Its not rocket science by any means, and most ppl on here have done a transom repair...some knowingly, some reluctantly..but most feel better when its done, knowing they have a safe transom with all the efforts on a restore.

In a nut shell, you will be removing some fiberglass skin in the engine bay, prolly about 3/8" thick, and chiseling out about a 2.5' x 2' section of 2 layers of 3/4 plywood. you will be replacing one layer of 2.5' x 2' of plywood, then laminating another oversized 3/4 layer of ply sistered to the outer areas of the transom, which may or may not be wood. then you will build up the inner glass to the thickness you have now, ....which is usually between 2-2 1/2" thick. You have a lot of cushion with the Volvos, because there's not inner shield plate, or gimble.

You will most likely need one sheet of 3/4 exterior plywood...about 30 bux at HD
a gallon or so of polyester resin/catalyst ..about 35 bux a gallon (hazmat shipping is extra so locally sourced is better)
Maybe 4-5 yards of 1708 cloth at about 7 bux a yard.
maybe some chopped strand mat, or just go with the 1708
you will also need some cabosil to thicken some resin, chip brushes, missing cups, ext..all cheap at US Composites or HD

You will also need a printable template, ill try to find that for you..

All in all, its really not that difficult, and im still skeptical as to why someone removed the power plant from this boat....if it was the transom, you will have eliminated that dilemma ...

Non of this will effect how your new drivetrain works with your new boat, you will set the engine mounts using the transom shield as a benchmark.

Ive seen your work so far, and I believe you can do this.....but its dirty work lol...there are a lot of glass gurus here, some may disagree with this method, but it will work..as long as you do the overlap.

heres a crude pic of your transom, and my lame art work..the pink areas is wood removed, the blue is glass skin removed.

 

[Marc Peternell]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

I am sure your heart sunk when you saw that your new assembly didn't match up to the hole. We all feel for you, but we are here to watch you rally and conquer!

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

Yup Mark, I was pretty bummed. However, the over tone of this build is... Right now we are not sure if we have anything that works! We started with a free hull that may very well end up being a submarine! We have a Prop to pulley system that LOOKS as if will work/run if we can get it to fit, but don't know if it fires. We are putting it into a boat it was obviously not made for... We're not sure if any of the existing wiring is any good or will match up at all. There are soo many unknowns with this project, whether it is a sink or swim project. The MORAL of the story is simple though, we are having FUN and learning for the most part. 1500 a piece with a good buddy so the budget is 3K to be on the water. New tools, and labor doesn't count; and the original timeline is next summer. No worries, if it comes together great, if it doesn't that's OK too. But I appreciate the insight and peoples comments, it is wonderful to have our own little cheering section that knows a whole lot more then I and backs us up!

Thanks again everybody.

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

I did have a thought last night though. Would the problem be solved with the 290t dp transom shield? So use the correct size shield with the 280 drive set up that I currently have?

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

An maybe a needs list of things I will also need to purchase that I may not have in order to do this? Which thread of yours did you do this on, so I can check it out.

In my build thread, around post #90 is where I started the transom lap and new keyholes...mine was a much bigger job than your, and I removed stringers too, you wont need to if yours are ok...you would just be cutting out the wood between both box stringers, and tieing the new transom to the hull and existing stringers, and lapping the sides and top a bit.

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...sf-engine-swap-restoration-pics-598307-4.html

 

[captmello]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

I did have a thought last night though. Would the problem be solved with the 290t dp transom shield? So use the correct size shield with the 280 drive set up that I currently have?

No, the 280 will not fit the 290 transom shield.

Have a look at this link.

http://forums.iboats.com/volvo-penta-i-o-inboard-gas-engines-outdrives/engine-drive-removal-prejudice-587606.html

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

And if I were able to find a 290 dp. Would that work with my 225d, or would there be other modifications that I would need to make that work?

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

To hook up to that 225, you probably would need a different ypipe and maybe a course spline female yoke for the ujoint to match your shaft. Both could be obtained fairly cheap...you may also need a hydraulic trim pump, lines, switch, and guage $$....if they don't come with it....

The 290dp drive needs to have a 1:95:1 lower gear ratio for the v8..not the 2:30:1

If all you can find in your budget is a single prop 290/290a and with the 4 cyl (2:15:1) or 6 cyl (1:89:1)gearset...you can swap your current 280 lower unit with some precise shimming. For the single prop 290, you need 1:61:1, which is what you have on the 280.

I paid $150 for that ypipe on ebay

The ujoint yoke from your 280 may work so u would have that.

WAY better drive than the 280...but pricey

You could most likely sell your 280 v8 drive, especially with those exhaust flaps and trim package, for what you paid for it all....leaving you with the motor almost free..

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

Alright guys, I found yet another donor boat project with you guessed it a 290 SP, however, it is connected to a 4 cylinder Volvo. So I would need the y pipe, and as Zool says some precision shimming. If I went this direction and it also comes with a tandem axle trailer, and some interior parts I need and could possibly recover, and sell the 4 banger for a couple hundred bucks. Im taking the hull down to a shop today to see what he would charge and get some professional advise as to the condition of the hull. No I haven't forgot about the hole I drilled through the hull If I went this direction with Rebuilding the transom to fit what I have currently and touching up the bottom keel, to weigh the costs vs. rewards. At some point down the line obviously after we see what kind of submarine we're dealing with get the hull painted a brilliant white. Thoughts?? Suggestions?? Oh yea, the other donor boat asking price 600; I don't plan on paying more then 300; I will put the estimate numbers in when I get them. Also, the 3rd option is doing the transom rebuild myself, for 2-300 bucks. The big reason for the shop estimate trip is to pick his brain, see what kind of a deal I can make for the re-paint job that down the line; If I include all the other BS along the way... IE. possible motor mount reconfiguration. a couple of scuffs, and a 1" by 2" small f UP under the swim platform that came into contact with a jack stand.

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

What is the difference with the 280 and 290 sp? I see the obvious shape size. Is there actually a different size in diameter that lines up? I am planning on picking up the other donor boat for 350 tomorrow afternoon. We got some big winds today that hindered progress.
I'll be posting the aq280 for sale pretty cheap if anyone is looking.

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

The good news is it has the wiring harness all the way up to the gauges also, so that will be hopefully one less wiring headache... If (this is where y'all chime in) Will it work as its coming off a 4 banger and will be used on the 225D???

 

[MikDee]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

Keep up the good work! You're doing great! Please don't paint the boat all white, I like the original deep red, & white. Have you tried a spot with Vaseline to restore the color, & shine?

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

I like the deep red also. I guess I never finished my thought on that one. I would do the bright white and a deeper brandywine larger stripe like the newer models but certainly custom look. the original stripe color is hunter green and it was poorly covered with the red, the original hull is an off white not bright white. I have buffed out the entire hull with compound, polish, and wax; it looks good enough for now for sure, the paint work will be down the road. But I always appreciate the comments. The pictures are phone pictures and doesn't seem to bring out the shine very well. Once I know its not a submarine and running I will put on a serious detail on the boat, whichever trailer i end up putting underneath, and interior and take real pictures.

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

What is the difference with the 280 and 290 sp? I see the obvious shape size. Is there actually a different size in diameter that lines up? I am planning on picking up the other donor boat for 350 tomorrow afternoon. We got some big winds today that hindered progress.
I'll be posting the aq280 for sale pretty cheap if anyone is looking.

Aside from the new transom shield size, and hook up fork, theres not much internal difference, in fact, most parts are interchangeable....the big difference is that the 290 has a hydraulic tilt/trim system, as opposed to the worm drive system on the 280.

Don't sell the 280 with the flying nun lower on it, you need that to run the v8..you can stick your lower from the 290 on the 280 to sell it tho...if you don't need parts from it. That will work with the 4 banger if you sell them as a package.

Heres the op manual for the 290 hooked up to the 225d again (page 17 is the photo)...it also has all the wiring specs for the trim system you get with the 290. You will be using the flywheel cover you have now on the 225d, it should clamp right to the transom shield on the 290. The reason you need the y-pipe is the port shape is different on the 290, otherwise that will look the same too.

ftp://vk.od.ua/34124.pdf

Im still amazed at your ability to trade up to what you need, reminds me of that TV show where they trade up from a bicycle to a Harley lol

 

[zool]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help

The good news is it has the wiring harness all the way up to the gauges also, so that will be hopefully one less wiring headache... If (this is where y'all chime in) Will it work as its coming off a 4 banger and will be used on the 225D???

The trim system is separate from the engine, and it doesn't care which ratio the drive is, the gearing is all handled in the lower unit on these VP's.....im glad you get it all, its pricey stuff...

 

[Montura newbie]

Re: Monterey Montura Newbie - need help





Well... I had this big post before I left with all of the preparations but didn't post it. I came home with the 1986 Invader tried to post and it said **** off I had been off too long. So I will just start with got it out of the desert and finally got home after about 3 hours of trying this and that. Anyway, you can see the wheel is not on but I do have it. The trailer is in great shape; all it will need is a 4 flat harness some dummy cut the other one. I brought one, but of course I brought the wrong end. LOL, I have to laugh at myself sometimes. Let the stripping commence. OK done... I removed the entire interior panels, seats, cushions, and some other stuff that I can't use but I removed it anyway. Who knows someone else may need it for 5 bucks. the neighborhood popo just shut me down so I figured I would show y'all what we got. AQ 151A, the 290SP appears to be in better condition then the 280 we started with. It has the h trim stuff attached, the shifter set up with no tilt just trim, all the gauges and wiring, a something or other ignition protector attached to the vent system, the bilge, dual battery switch, cb/radio antenna, and of course the trailer; oh and it does need tires also. I broke out the pressure washer and it all cleaned up rather well. It'll be a shame to take this one to the dump, I buffed out a little part of the rear section and it shined right up. If I had another 290 sitting around somewhere, I would just redo the interior and flip it. I stopped at a boat repair place on the way there just because it said boat on the building. Really cool guy, I explained what project we had and we swapped stories about the disappearing lake we have out here. He thinks he has a v-8 290 y-pipe in a storage container on the back of his lot. He's gonna have one of the guys look for it over the weekend, and he'll call me and I can pick it up for my favorite F R E E!! Anyway, take a look at the pictures, I have some more that are downloading to PB. I will post them after I get something to eat. Thanks guys. I'll be back later. The other pictures show some more detail also.