86 Sea Ray Restoration [Splashed Oct 2017]

[Goldie627]

Hello everybody,

I have officially begun the restoration. Any suggestions, tips and/or advice is very much appreciated. I hope my post(s) will help somebody in someway as I have learned so much from this community.

Initial concerns..

1.) How feasible is it for me to leave the motor mount and transom? Replacing all other wood.
2.) Should I be concerned about the gap in the window?
3.) Is it ok for me to replace the floor with the boat on its sled trailer?
Some people think that when you remove the floor it alters the shape of the hull.
4.) Best method(s) for separating the edge of the deck from the hull?

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 1 Clip 1 Intro

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 1 Clip 2 Window Gap Question

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 1 Clip 3 Seat Removal

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 1 Clip 4 Should I Keep old Motor Mount & Transom?

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 1 Clip 5 How to Separate Hull from Deck Edge?

Tips..

Take lots of pictures, take lots of measurements, get the largest garbage bags you can for the foam cleanup, don't throw away all the old pieces of wood just yet, some may be useful as templates, when you get the foam down low, use a wide paint scrapper to remove foam from the deck, really works well, basic tools used: hammer, chisel, metal paint scrapper, saws-all, jig saw, 4 1/4 angle grinder, pry bar, harbor freight is a good resource for cheap tools (i buy a-lot of my tools from them with the exception of sockets and wrenches)

Decided to leave the gas tank in for now, otherwise there would be nothing to stand on LOL

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Welcome!. Watched all your videos. Interesting stuff. To comment on one of your comments, Yup, you got a lot of work ahead of you. To answer one of your questions: I doubt you'll be able to do a good job without pulling the engine. You just need the room to tie it all together and properly attach all the new stuff to any old stuff you elect to save. To get the deck out best is to cut as close to the hull as possible and grind the rest off. You sawsall held at an angle with that flexible long blade you have will probably do the best job. Good luck, and start reading some of the glass resto threads, they will help you a lot. To late now but I would have cut all around those seats through the glass tabbing and taken them out in one piece. They were probably made outside of the boat and then tabbed in with CSM.

 

[britisher]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Welcome.
I bought an 89 SR 180 BR last year. It was my first boat. Turned out the boat was completely rotten inside, so had to be completely gutted and rebuilt. Never done anything like that before, so steep learning curve. Started March, finished October. Worked most weekends. The Motor, sterndrive, etc were all removed from the boat. Not having them there gives you so much more space and when it comes to putting in new wood deck at the back, it is so much easier with dimensions. The boat was kept on the trailer the whole time. I just made sure the boat was level in both directions.
On the windshield, on my boat, all the underneath is wood, so when it was removed the upper glassfiber consoles with the windshields on were held up with 2 x 4's, till I got to the point of rebuilding the consoles again. Before fixing the consoles in again, I had to make sure the folding part of the windshield folded good and the gap was accurate. Once I had done that, we secured the underneath parts of the consoles permanently. Never had any issues with the windshield gap since.
As has been said before, take pics, take measurements and for things like seat bases and large inside structures, I tried to keep them whole when removing them, so they formed the templates for the new ones. On the motor mounts, I found on mine that outwardly, they looked fine. Unfortunately, when they were removed, all the plywood inside had rotted and basically the mounts were hollow. The transom was the first part of the boat we found to be rotten and was spotted when removing the engine. It was all mush underneath the fiberglass.
Keep a tight hold on budget spend (I didn't) and you'll be OK. You will also find that for FG, resin supplies most here source for US Composites.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Welcome to iBoats!

Very Nice Vids!!! If you keep this up you'll be a very popular guy here on the forum and get lots of help. Like GS said it's not easy to work around the motor especially when trying to get the side stringers in and run back to the transom and alongside the motor. You have to encapsulated them totally in glass and tab them to the hull and I don't see how you could do that with the motor in place. It's not all that bad to pull the motor if you have a Cherry Picker or Rent one. Making a roll around motor stand and Lower Unit stand is fairly easy as well. There are plans posted here on the forum. Looks like you have the tools of the trade already so you're on your way. I would Highly recommend you get a good respirator too. The glass dust, foam dust, mold and mildew etc is not good to be breathing. You already found out about gloves. This will help ...
(Click the pic to download and view the PDF File)
View attachment MaterialsList.pdf
So will this...
"Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

Good to hear about the transom and Motor mounts. When you Pull the motor and Lower Unit don't be surprised if you find something different on the transom. If the Lower Unit has been leaking the bottom of the transom could be wet and rotting. A lot of them find this to be the case after removal, especially on a 27 year old boat.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Nice videos, we don't always get good visuals to start with, so thank you for doing that.

In answer to a couple of your questions:

The window gap is probably an indication that something has changed below deck which is effecting how the 2 dashboard 'consoles' are supporting the window frame. More often it is seen that the consoles sag in the middle, which closes up the space for the hinged glass to close. So, it closes hard or not at all. Your situation seems to be the opposite, where the opening is now quite a bit larger than the frame.

Cutting the floor out - A circular saw set to cut slightly less than the thickness of the decking plywood would be the way to open up the flooring. Initially cut in areas where you can tell that it is wood and not the fiberglass hull. Also do not cut directly over the fuel tank as you do not want to run the risk if hitting it or causing sparks, etc. The fiberglass area that you pointed out in your video towards the outer areas of the hull (chines) may indeed be the fiberglass hull and not plywood decking. So the thing to do is to open up some areas of obvious plywood and use a pry bar and other tools to work your way to the outer edges.

There have been a few threads where folks have set the depth of their circular saw too deep and cut right through the hull, or in fact do as you indicated, cut too close to the perimeter of the deck where it was actually hull and not decking.

I would also be sure that the fuel tank is drained and the fittings are sealed up with tape or something.

Keeping the engine in the boat - I would remove the decking and get a better look at the stringers. Then decide if the engine has to come out. Probably the stringers that the engine mounts are attached to are rotting, so you would need to replace the stringers in those areas. so, the engine may need to come out, even though the mounting areas are OK.

there have been a few restorations where the engine was kept mounted in the boat, so it really depends what you find once you open things up.

I hope this helps, looking forward to your progress updates.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Interesting project, I'm going to follow along and see how it goes!

I can understand not wanting to pull the motor if you don't need to, but leaving in the motor is going to greatly complicate things, especially when you're grinding and glassing. In addition to just being in the way, the engine will have to be protected from fiberglass dust while grinding (and that stuff gets everywhere) and from resin slopping on it when you're glassing. Even for someone with limited engine/mechanical experience (aka me), pulling and later re-installing the engine only added a couple of days to the project. Having that extra room really helps, too, when you're crawling around in a Tyvek suit and respirator trying to get out the old glass.

A bigger concern is the stability of the stingers and transom in the back of the boat. In your video where you're looking at the stingers running right up the engine mount, it looks like the wooden stringers just in front of the engine area are pretty bad. Considering the old saying that 'boats rot from the bottom up', I would be pretty surprised if the bottom of the stringers near the motor mount are solid.

I'd also be skeptical about the integrity of the transom until you more of the deck and foam out. On my boat, the transom on the port side was in great shape, pretty much all the way down to the hull. On the starboard side, though, there was extensive rot, and it was places hard to see/reach. Until I tore the back of the boat apart, I didn't know how bad it was.

If you get really lucky and your transom and rear stringers are OK, it might be worth it to leave in the engine. It might end up causing you more grief than it's worth though. In any case, the decision may be made for you as you open up more of the boat to see what the stingers look like closer to the hull.

Good luck and I'll be looking forward to watching your progress!

Jim

 

[Goldie627]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Thank you all for your encouragement and kindness!

Happy Thanksgiving!

Engine and out-drive will be out soon

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 2 Clip 1 Double Sided

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 2 Clip 2 Console Removal

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 2 Clip 3 Thanks to the iBoats Forum

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Nice updates . . . I like the time lapse segments as you are working. I might try that with some of the boat work I have coming up.

Also, take lots of still pictures of how things are as you take things apart, particularly with the engine removal. That way you can refer to them when you are putting things back together.

Do you have a GoPro camera? If not, there's something for the holiday wish list.

I keep my manuals in the PDF (electronic) format and only print out the few pages that I need, because like you said, lots of pages . . .

 

[Goldie627]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Tpenfield - your evaluation of the window was right on the money! You were exactly correct! The warping deck raised the consoles which in turn caused extra space between the windows. I will using your circular saw method for deck removal very soon Yea, the time lapse is pretty neat and very easy to apply, its one of the tools in Adobe Premiere Pro, its called the rate stretch tool, for video I've been using my cell phone (htc evo 4g lte), tablet (nexus 10) and my buddy's camera when my gear is dead, Go Pro looks nice but Nikon COOLPIX S9500 caught my eye and is the price is right

Georgesalmon - Thanks for the advice

britisher - Thanks for your help, i'm going to use 2 x 4's to hold up the consoles after the deck comes out

Woodonglass - Hey thanks for always helping out! That shopping list was a big help, the day after day one i woke up and coughed up some chalky stuff so a respirator is now "officially" on my list of things to get

JASinIL2006 - Thanks for the advice

My concerns:
Ambient temperature for us composite's 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin (Marine Grade Resin)?
After removing the out-drive and engine im still uncertain about leaving the transom, should i de-skin the bottom of the transom for further inspection?
Is there anything i should do to the motor or out-drive while they are out?
Should that large bellow have oil laying in the bottom of it?

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 3 Clip 1 Ambient Temperature for 435 Polyester Resin

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 3 Clip 2 Outdrive Removal

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 3 Clip 3 Engine Removal

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 3 Clip 4 Transom Evaluation

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

My thoughts:

Fiberglass/resin work in colder temps:
I have worked in lower outside temps than you mentioned, doing fiberglass work. But you need to get the temperature into the 60 F degree range and then apply some heat (hair dryer, hot air gun, etc) to get the material to 'kick'. Also, you will want to use a higher percentage of catalyst (like 1.5% or even 2%), instead of the standard 1%.

You can also store the resin inside so that it is more like 70-75 degrees and then bring it outside, just as you are going to use it.

Also, keep in mind that you can use the 'cold' to your advantage in slowing the curing process down for situations where you need a longer working time. Usually, Poly resin starts to gel/cure in about 10-15 minutes. Other types of resin (Vinyl Ester, Epoxy) are slower to cure. So, when I have needed more like 30-40 minutes to work, I have pre-cooled the resin, so it cures slower. You do need to get the surface temperature of what you are working on into the 65-70 degree range in order for it to cure.

So, I did a similar thing to what was suggested to you, in putting the boat in the garage and then putting a tarp over the doorway and exposed portion of the boat in order to keep the garage and boat warmer. But even then it was barely 60 degrees (early spring in the northeast). So, I had to keep the hot air gun handy to heat the surface areas that I was working on, etc.

Also, once the resin starts to cure, it generates some of its own heat. that is why you will not want to leave resin in a mixing pot for more than a minute or two, as that much of a concentrated amount will tend to cure solid in a few minutes.

It would be best to read up and check out youtube videos (frisco's and others) on working with fiberglass & resin. Work with small batches of resin first, so you do not waste any if you have problems initially.

Outdrive removal . . .
Given the tough time that you had removing the outdrive, the engine may be out of alignment. Since there is rot in the stringers along the front engine mount, it is likely that the front mount was sagging a bit under the weight of the engine. So, it is good that you pulled the engine, as you will want to rebuild the supports for the front engine mount.

There should not be oil in the bellows (only grease). So, it may be an indication that you have a leak in the drive shaft seal of the outdrive.

That rubber seal is interesting, and should be fully understood and corrected before putting the outdrive back on. I have the Bravo outdrives on my boat and I am not quite familiar with the seals on the Alpha outdrives. It is critical to get a good seal where the outdrive is inserted into the bellows, or else water will get in and trash the u-joints and the gimbal bearing, as well as leak into the boat.

Transom
Looks OK. You probably should use a percussion hammer just to tap in various areas. It has probably not rotted because the wood does not extend all the way to the bottom of the transom/hull intersection, where the drain hole fitting is located. Usually transoms start rotting from the drainhole, if the drainhole is bored through the transom wood. Your boat looks like it does not have that problem.

If you want, you could get a general purpose moisture meter at a home improvement store for about $30 and drill some test holes low on the inside face of the transom to check for the moisture level. Then seal them back up.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

About the lowest temperature I'd do glassing at is around 65F. When I did mine I kept the resin and glass in the house so it was about 70. I'm lucky because I have a heated garage but it still costs a lot to heat it. I keep my garage at 38F during the winter and what I did was turn it up to 68 a couple of hours before I mixed the resin. Then I did what I was gonna do that day and when done I turned it back down to 38. The next day everything had cured enough to continue working. Worked fine for me. Lots of people have built plastic shelters and used portable heaters with good success to. Back in the day before stiched fabrics like 1708, 24oz woven roving was the glass material of choice. We made boats during the winter and stored them outside at -20 temps for several months. When spring came the boats were delivered to Florida and after a few weeks in the hot sun the resin finished curing and shrunk pulling the WR pattern to the outside and the hull sides looked like we made them in a waffle iron. Structurally they were fine but they didn't look so good upon close inspection.

I would at least remove the transom plate look at the bolt holes and drill some small holes an inch deep or so in the transom to check for wet wood, just tapping and poking on the surface glass may not give you the whole story. Where the transom and hull bottom come together there are multiple layers of glass which may seem good when tapping while the wood under is compromised. Man, with all the work your doing already you don't want to save a few hours by leaving anything wet in there to mess things up in the near future. You already have it apart now so now's the time.

If your engine is going to freeze just make sure there is no water in it otherwise can't think of anything else to do right now.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

You might post pix in addition to the videos, some can't download or view them while a work...

Not that ANYONE hanging out in the dry dock would EVER surf iboats from work....

Yep, agree w/ both about keeping the resin warm before use, make sure to get the hull up to temp too, and for sure thoroughly check the transom. As mentioned, it will never be easier to repair then while you have the boat apart.

Good luck w/ your project...

 

[Goldie627]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Thank you for all the temperature tips, i'm thinking of a design for a small as possible modular tent made of pvc pipes and fittings covered with tarps and heated with some sort of portable heater, will only need on glass days, I will post the construction and temperature test after i come up with a design.

jb - these pics are for you!



86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 4 Clip 1 Project Update

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 4 Clip 2 Bow Seat and Storage Removal

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 4 Clip 3 Respirator Search

 

[Jayboat66]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Welcome!. I just finished a boat project like yours. I place between the deck and hull 3/8 " shims made of foam and cover the gap with PB (peanut butter). Friscoboater has a video how to make PB.

I did not replace the transom and I left the engine there but was so difficult to glass the stringers. Mi advise is to remove the engine and do better job. Make sure you measured the motor base before you remove it.
Check my thread and see the job I did.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Good work, I might mention even though it seems you already figured this out. That sawsall which back in the day we called a "roughneck" is your friend. By using different lengths and teeth blades you could have used it to do 99% of everything you did up in the bow. The flexible blades will almost cut around corners and different angles. The blades made for metal seem to last the longest in fiberglass even longer than the blades made for fiberglass though they might cut a little slower. Save the grinder for grinding the edges off the hull and prepping for new glass, use 24 grit discs if you can find them or 36 to 40 if you can't. An old fashioned hand saw or keyhole saw does wonders for help removing dry foam too.

For your deconstruction you just need dust masks but when you get into resin work what you need are masks to protect you from VOC's (volatile organic compounds). Those paint masks are fine. Don't think I ever saw one made for just polyester fumes (styrene). Styrene is odorless and colorless so what you can smell isn't what you need to protect yourself from, its what you can't smell. Though when you can smell polyester inside your mask its a good indication you need a new cartridge. Any cartridge that says it will protect from organic vapors is what you need. Yeah, they do have activated charcoal in them. And once opened they will start using up their life just sitting around. When not on your face store your mask in a sealed gallon ziplock bag and they will last longer.

Good progress, I like watching your movies.

 

[Goldie627]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Jayboat66 - Thanks for the tip, sometimes at night I fall asleep watching and learning from Mr. Jarretts videos! lol He is a guru and kind enough to share his knowledge with us. My motor and out-drive are out and next week I am going to a marine repair shop to find out all the parts I should replace while its disassembled. At the very least im going to check the gimble bearing and replace the water pump. I also need a gasket and a few seals. I'm gonna pull a "jbcurt00" move and check your thread when I get to work!

Georgesalmon - You are so right! I think the saws-all is my most used power tool for this kind of work. I made a video of some helpful tools needed for this project and I will be uploading it soon Thanks for the tips on the grinder, respirator info and foam removal. My videos are usually made a few to four or five days before I read current posts, so if you don't see me following your excellent advice its just because the videos were recorded before I read your awesome recommendations I'm glad you like the videos, I hope they can help other noobs out there like me!



86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 5 Clip 1 Home Depot Run

86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 5 Clip 2 Bow Area Demolition Continues

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

I'm gonna pull a "jbcurt00" move and check your thread when I get to work!

I see what you did there ^^^...... It's been noted in your PERMANENT file

 

[Jayboat66]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Here is some of the iboat members you should look their project. Will be very important to read and watch how they did it.

GPRS
Allbutwet
Mxcobra
Woodonglass
GT1000000

 

[Goldie627]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Jayboat66 - Thanks for the links. I am familiar with woodonglass as he is always kind and helpful. However, I'm not familiar with the others so I will look them up.

jbcurt00 -



86 Sea Ray Restoration Day 6 Clip 1 Bow Demolition Continues

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Re: 86 Sea Ray Restoration

Looks like your on your way nice work